Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth

Author
Spaceduck
Max Output Level: -50.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2499
  • Joined: 2004/12/29 12:51:03
  • Status: offline
2008/11/15 11:47:16 (permalink)

Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth

Can someone explain the difference between "bit rate" and "bit depth"?

And why, when exporting to mp3, do we always talk about bit rate (e.g. 128kbps), but when recording we only care about bit depth (e.g. 24bit)?

The reason why I'm suddenly curious after all these years is that I'm having some old analog tapes converted to digital. I need to specify what format, so I just told them "24 bit, 96 kHz". Should I also specify a bit rate?

P.S. Out of curiosity, I checked the properties of the files in my Audio folders, and they all seem to be 2304kbps (at 24/96). Is there a setting in Sonar that controls this?

Spaceduck music [HERE]
Spaceduck videos [HERE]
#1

12 Replies Related Threads

    syrath
    Max Output Level: -34.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4075
    • Joined: 2005/08/11 05:40:08
    • Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
    • Status: offline
    RE: Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth 2008/11/15 12:17:40 (permalink)
    Bit rate is the amount of bits per second that an mp3 outputs, the higher the better. Bit Depth is used to determine the range of measurements. 16 bit audio has a range of 2 to the power of 16. 24 bit depth has 2 to the power of 24 possible values.

    The other factor is sampling rate for audio.
    #2
    CakeMaker
    Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 469
    • Joined: 2006/01/21 14:44:34
    • Location: NorthEast Kingdom
    • Status: offline
    RE: Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth 2008/11/15 12:19:22 (permalink)
    SD,

    This is such a GREAT question and one that has plagued me for years too. I THINK (please notice i said think, cuz I'm hoping someone more knowledgable will come along and say it correctly) that bit rate is speed-based, whereas bit depth is size-related.

    Bit depth directly corresponds to the resolution of each sample in a set of digital audio. Bit rate refers to the amount of data, specifically bits, transmitted or received per second. Does that help? (got it from Wiki, so I'm going on the fact that its correct- also below is from Wiki)

    Technically speaking, bit depth is only meaningful when applied to pure PCM devices. Non-PCM formats, such as DSD or lossy compression systems like MP3, have bit depths that are not defined in the same sense as PCM. This is particularly true for lossy audio compression, where bits are allocated to other types of information, and the bits actually allocated to individual samples are allowed to fluctuate within the constraints imposed by the allocation algorithm. Recently, many lossy formats such as DTS and WMA Pro have been promoted as 24-bit. However, this is not correct. A lossy file will not actually contain 24 bits worth of information per sample, but is actually a file that was originally mastered at 24 bits and then compressed.

    One of the most common bit rates given is that for compressed audio files. For example, an MP3 file might be described as having a bit rate of 160 kbit/s or 160000 bits/second. This indicates the amount of compressed data needed to store one second of music.

    The standard audio CD is said to have a data rate of 44.1 kHz/16, implying the audio data was sampled 44,100 times per second, with a bit depth of 16. CD tracks are usually stereo, using a left and right track, so the amount of audio data per second is double that of mono, where only a single track is used. The bit rate is then 44100 samples/second * 16 bits/sample * 2 = 1,411,200 bit/s or 1.4 Mbit/s.

    To fully define a sound file's digital audio bit rates, the sampling rate, word size, number of channels, (e.g. mono, stereo, four-track), and format of the data also need to be known. Someone else said: "Bit depth determines the range of decibels that the digitization process can capture. The more bits, the wider the range." That seems to make sense.

    I sure hope this is helpful, as I initially had a hard time wrapping the ole brain around this as well......
    Bestest,
    CakeMaker
    #3
    Spaceduck
    Max Output Level: -50.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2499
    • Joined: 2004/12/29 12:51:03
    • Status: offline
    RE: Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth 2008/11/15 13:14:16 (permalink)
    Thanks guys... I think I got it now! CakeMaker, your examples really cleared it up. Ok, so let me get this straight...

    It's nothing more than
    BR = BD x SR

    BR (bit rate)
    BD (bit depth)
    SR (sample rate)

    In the world of uncompressed audio like in Sonar, we think in terms of BD & SR because it's more descriptive, like specifying the length & girth of a box.

    But with compressed files like mp3s, we throw the box away and grab the stuff inside. Therefore, we don't care about the dimensions of the box; we only care about how much stuff we can grab out of it, hence the unit of measurement "bit rate", or the amount of useable stuff.

    Or something like that

    CakeMaker, your description was much better

    Spaceduck music [HERE]
    Spaceduck videos [HERE]
    #4
    bwet
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13
    • Joined: 2017/10/11 01:21:21
    • Status: offline
    Re: RE: Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth 2018/03/28 03:10:12 (permalink)
    try this
    bit rate = sample rate * bit depth * channels
    44100 * 24 * 2 = 2,116,800 (~2116kbps)
    48000 * 24 * 2 = 2,304,000 (~2304kbps)
    48000 * 32 * 2 = 3,072,000 (~3072kbps)
     
    #5
    Kamikaze
    Max Output Level: -45 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3013
    • Joined: 2015/01/15 21:38:59
    • Location: Da Nang, Vietnam
    • Status: offline
    Re: RE: Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth 2018/03/28 04:35:22 (permalink)
    10 yr old thread


     
    #6
    John T
    Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 6783
    • Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
    • Status: offline
    Re: RE: Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth 2018/03/28 08:12:37 (permalink)
    BURN IT!

    http://johntatlockaudio.com/
    Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
    #7
    soens
    Max Output Level: -23.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5154
    • Joined: 2005/09/16 03:19:55
    • Location: Location: Location
    • Status: offline
    Re: RE: Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth 2018/03/28 08:33:41 (permalink)
    ...i wood if i new which bitrate to use.
    #8
    msmcleod
    Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 920
    • Joined: 2004/01/27 07:15:30
    • Location: Scotland
    • Status: offline
    Re: RE: Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth 2018/03/28 11:38:58 (permalink)
    This is no doubt an over-simplification, but when I always see it when compared to tape as:
     
    Bit Depth = width of the tape
    Bit Rate   = speed of the tape
     
    A higher Bit Depth gives a greater resolution with respect to the amplitude of the waves, whereas a higher Bit Rate gives a greater resolution with respect to frequencies.
     
    M.
     
    #9
    John T
    Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 6783
    • Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
    • Status: offline
    Re: RE: Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth 2018/03/28 16:02:50 (permalink)
    You're thinking of sampling frequency (for "speed of the tape"), which does not directly relate to bit rate.

    http://johntatlockaudio.com/
    Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
    #10
    Kamm Schreiner
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 46
    • Joined: 2016/08/08 16:21:16
    • Status: offline
    Re: Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth 2018/03/28 19:20:05 (permalink)
    The higher the bit depth, the greater the signal to noise ratio (S/N). For a given bit depth, increasing bit rate increases the highest frequency that can be reproduced.
    #11
    mettelus
    Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5321
    • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
    • Location: Maryland, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth 2018/03/29 06:04:12 (permalink)
    I think the OP was referring more to mp3 formats, which isn't an apples-to-apples comparison with PCM. I started a thread a few years ago now that got a lot of nice input and was started from an article I had found saying that mp3s are "effectively 20-bits for bit depth." That thread got some nice discussion and insight into mp3s.
     
    This is a "necro thread," yes, but the mp3 format is still relevant due to its high level of usage.

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #12
    msmcleod
    Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 920
    • Joined: 2004/01/27 07:15:30
    • Location: Scotland
    • Status: offline
    Re: RE: Bit Rate vs. Bit Depth 2018/03/29 09:16:55 (permalink)
    John T
    You're thinking of sampling frequency (for "speed of the tape"), which does not directly relate to bit rate.


    Yes, you're right!  my bad.
    #13
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1