At What Point Do 'You' Lay Your Vox Tracks?

I tend to lay a scratch vocal down fairly early ... usually before I send off for real drums or guitar, and also sometimes redo some of my keys to better fit "around" the vocals.

I do the vocals dead last. not before i master it, but i do mix the song to where i like it, then ill lay down the vocal tracks and then mix again and master it

I'm trying the lay the vocals on a track I'm working on now where all I have laid is the drums, bass and guitar (rhythm section) but no keys nor harmonies and I felt like the melody of the lyrics I composed were more wide-open.

Yea, theres some planning and looking into the future when doing it this way and my way. It all works out in the end for me when doing them last. you just need to plan ahead and foresee the future..LOL
Cj

Hi-

I record a scratch vocal pretty early on, then maybe "scratch" vocal harmonies as well. I often have only a simple KB or guitar accompaniment in the early stage, so the first iteration is basically a scratch pad or outline.

After I've recorded the other parts against the scratch vocals, I re-record the final vocals, then tweak the other parts if necessary.

This is the easiest way for me, since I often re-compose the song as I record the vocals, and I also often end up changing the lyrics as I go.

Totally different, of course, if you have a "finished" song to start with, but that's the way I've always used SONAR. It wasn't so easy in the olden days!

-Susan

You'll hate my answer...


It depends.

I typically write songs in one of two "modes"...

one is where the riff/chord pattern/melody come with the words fairly close after. Then I practice/perform the song a lot with just guitar/vocal until I know what I want(this can take months...I don't know I'm happy with it until I'm happy with it...if that makes sense) Basically the arrangement is built in my head. Then the recording process basically becomes a "download" of the arrangement with vocals last. There will be some creative additions/subtractions in that process but basically what comes out is the song I heard in my head.(check out my tunes "Here", "Janet's Song" or "Rescue Me" for this mode.)

The other method is that I only come up with a chord structure/beat/melody but no words. I typically lay down a rough version of this and move on. Sometimes I completely make it an instrumental with a guitar or synth where the "vocal" should be(check out my tune "Light the Muse" for an example of this) . Later(sometimes YEARS later) a lyrical idea I have suddenly fits and I then compile the song together. This tends to be frustrating if I had fully fleshed out the instrumental arrangement and then realize that I need to completely rearrange to make it work with the vocal. I have a song that I'm going through the rewrite process right now because I had the audacity to write lyrics!

Anyway...any way that works is "right" but thanX for posting...I am going to experiment a bit with process now and see what changes!

ORIGINAL: Susan G

Totally different, of course, if you have a "finished" song to start with, but that's the way I've always used SONAR. It wasn't so easy in the olden days!

-Susan

Yeah, back in the day they called me "Baron Von Rogel" because I was a bit overbearing on how I wanted things played...and how I treated people playing other instruments on songs I wrote.

Sorry

and that goes out to all the people that put up with my crap over the last 30 years

we do a scratch vocal (which sometimes makes it to *final*) over the scratch guitar, bass and drum tracks. However sometimes the scratch tracks make it to final but that happens fairly rarely.

I do a vocal as early as possible....then I may have a couple of more goes at it during the songs development, tightening vocal phrasing etc...then at the end I usually have another go...

One of those will be the final vocal....sometimes, its the first, as is the case on one of my songs on my new album..the "writing vocal" the very first take of the song...ever....made it to the end...that was pretty cool..


but, whatever works..

cheers

Wiz

My process is similar to some others on this thread.

I'll get some basic chord progressions going, record a scratch guitar, maybe a little drums. Then I write the lyrics and lay down a scratch vocal. During recording of the scratch vocal I envariably change the melody and the lyrics. I work at this scratch vocal until the melody and lyrics are composed fully. This is key, because the vocal becomes the central part to which everything else is arranged around. Then I can re-record guitars, start working on the bass line, drums, etc. At this point I'll do the final vocals and then harmonies. After that I add extra parts and begin to mix.

I usually write with guitar / voice simultaneously or kboard / voice. I then record scratch guitar or keyboard to a midi drum "click track". Then record real or scratch bass, then a scratch vocal track. I then start adding real tracks.

If you want to create 'popular' music then the melodic and lyric hooks are what are most important. I would think it difficult to record vocals last.

I use this method because I write and record alone which makes for weak song writing unless you work very hard at it. The 3 songs I have recorded so far are pretty weak in some respects - lack of dynamics, melodic and rythmic monotony etc. I would love to work with a good group of musicians. Where are the Zaiger brothers when you need them?

www.soundclick.com/johnnemo

I can't sing so I have to record the vocals last otherwise everything would be in the key of flat

If I'm doing a band recording, scratch vox with the band. It is the only way some can find their way through the song.

For my own stuff, my wife sings. I usually get the song finished otherwise, make her a copy, and she figures it out (she provides the melody with it, since I dont' do no stinking melody). We have done a few songs where she comes up with the vox line/melody first.

Looking back over the O/P, I think were seeing a need for distinction here.

There's two processes for vox that I undertake: WRITING the vox (melody and lyrics) and TRACKING the vox (final tracking, like going for it with good gear kind of deal).

Per my original response, but echoing what everyone else says: I like to get the WRITING part in as early as possible because it helps shape the remaining parts around the vocal. This also gives the vocalist time to toy with their part (ha, in my case it gives them MONTHS because that's how long it takes me to write)

TRACKING the final vox tho, I save that for right before final mixing. In most cases I'll have a pretty robust rough mix already (because I'll have the scratch vocal), but I save that well into the process so the singers have something substantial to hear for reference.

On our first record my mixes were penultimate, and I only changed things after the vox to sculpt out some room for the vox. On this record I'm building to mix with all the ingredients last. There's something very rewarding about having all the bits you know need to finish and not having to dicker about in someone else's studio or wait on talent any longer. :-)