The_Kiss
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Nice open sound?
**This is a question about Panning Laws** I've been noticing a clear difference between my mixes and those of professionals. In the past, I never did much with panning and everything was usually mixed in stereo. But now after a little experimentation, I've noticed that when I pan certain tracks, the sound of my mixes becomes a lot more open and spacious. I truly believe this is one of the key elements in distinguishing an amateur mix from a professional mix. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is how I see it: If you pan everything in the center, then all your sounds are struggling to get through the middle passage of the monitors. But when you pan some of the tracks left or right, more room becomes available for the sonic waves to pass through each speaker. Is this correct? With that in mind, where can I learn more about panning laws and how to use them to my advantage? Alan Moulder (mixing engineer for Nine Inch Nails and dozens of other bands) create absolutely wonderful mixes and it's like every single sound is able to get through. Thanks guys!
post edited by The_Kiss - January 18, 09 8:56 PM
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CJaysMusic
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 18, 09 9:02 PM
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If you pan everything in the center, then all your sounds are struggling to get through the middle passage of the monitors. But when you pan some of the tracks left or right, more room becomes available for the sonic waves to pass through each speaker. Is this correct? Yea.. but panning laws have nothing to due with this. your mic should have depth to it. not only left and right, but front, middle behind, mid center left center, right center, back right middle , upper right middle and so on and so on. you get the 3d sound with Delays, reverbs, chorus's and some others that i cant think of just yet. Long delays combined with a reverb with a pre delay on it will make your signal sound far away and seem like its coming from the back of your monitors. The smart Guide to Mixing and Mastering is a great book for this
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Fog
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 18, 09 9:06 PM
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if you look at the techniques part of the forum that has got a lot of pointers also.. remember years ago records were recorded in mono , so having the space at either / left or right or centre is no biggy.. you really make room by the eq.. remember you want both channels to be pretty balanced with each other.. it might even come down to the genre you do... e.g. if your making music for dance dj's... normally they monitor in mono .. so you want the kick drum centre and the snare for reference for them.. same with sub bass.. as some cabinets have only 1 subwoofer, and that stops any phasing problems. panning a bit either way is nice to make the music move around, if that make sense.. but think about the places where the music is played.. you don't want it totally hard panned ot one side, as the left or right speaker might be far apart from the other one.. so you need signal to go to both. think of it like.... when a car passes you... or a plane flies over.. you don't hear a constant volume.. it goes left to right.. it gives you movement.. hopefully that makes sense.. .it for me just gives your music movement.. but if you pan to far left / right .. well it's not used on everything.. and best to leave some signal going to the other speaker mixing / mastering etc.. is a deep subject. if you learn all the components on their own and why people do x-y-z to a mix, in time it begins to make sense.
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Zo
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 18, 09 9:09 PM
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basically you have 3D axis X,Y,Z you control X axis with the pan! you control y axis with filters (eq..) you control Z axis with volume effects have incidence in all area , like cj said for example a the wet of the reverb will move your sound in the z axis ...ect... you work effects as sounds so it works accordin to same laws!
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dcastle
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 20, 09 4:06 PM
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Greetings A. S., Panning laws really don't make much difference unless you are using automation to move things around in the mix. If the positions are fixed, then the different laws just affect the relative levels, but you are going to control that in the mix anyway, so it really doesn't matter. Regards, David
post edited by dcastle - January 20, 09 4:10 PM
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j boy
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 20, 09 4:10 PM
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Go to the PSW forum and search on "Cardinal Points Panning".
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shidan
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 20, 09 5:34 PM
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+1
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dcastle
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 20, 09 6:23 PM
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Whether I agree with the "Cardinal Points Panning" stuff or not really doesn't change my answer about panning laws. But, as long as we are discussing panning, and at the risk of provoking a flame war, I really don't like the pan pot. I have started using Cakewalk Audio FX3 Soundstage for all my panning and reverb. I like the natural feeling this gives to my close mic'd live recordings. Regards, David
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bitflipper
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 20, 09 6:24 PM
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One common mistake is recording too many stereo tracks. Tracks should be mono unless there is a truly compelling reason for recording them in stereo, e.g. an actual stereo source such as a Leslie speaker or a drum kit. Too many stereo tracks result in what Craig Anderton calls "big mono" - those stereo tracks can't be properly panned and the result is a muddy panorama. Of course, an even more common mistake is clumsy or heavy-handed use of compression and limiting. That erases the "hair" - all the fine detail in the dynamics.
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dcastle
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 20, 09 6:27 PM
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+1 on the compression and limiting!
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j boy
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 20, 09 6:56 PM
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David (dcastle), I wasn't responding to you... my comment was responding to the OP. No worries.
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dcastle
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 20, 09 7:11 PM
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ricstudioc
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 21, 09 0:45 PM
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And +1 on the mono tracking - with the "stereo" output of all this stuff you end up with more combs than a barber college.... Mono sources are so much easier to localize and place in-field.
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JavaMan
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RE: Nice open sound?
January 21, 09 12:45 AM
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ORIGINAL: bitflipper One common mistake is recording too many stereo tracks. Tracks should be mono unless there is a truly compelling reason for recording them in stereo, e.g. an actual stereo source such as a Leslie speaker or a drum kit. +10
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