There was an excellent series about 10 years ago called "The Rhythm of Life" which was hosted by Sir George Martin. He looked at all aspects of music and songwriting, breaking down the components of a song and how it is created. He interviewed/spent time with such greats as Paul McCartney, Brian Wilson, Billy Joel etc.

One particular segment with Billy Joel, he played "Uptown Girl" and talked about how he wrote it from a tune he had in his head.... then years later was listening to National Public Radio in the car, and they played a Mozart piece in which the main melody of "Uptown Girl" was the clear motif of the Mozart Piece. Joel went as far as playing "Uptown Girl" in a classical style on the piano to illustrate how close his melody is to a classical music motif. He then went on to say "I had no idea when I wrote it that i was ripping off Mozart... ha ha"...

Basically his point was that influences come from all over when writing, some realized, some not... but you dont blatently steal.

I could not find that original clip, but here is something of a similar concept:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-MJPjQFnH8


Here is an excerpt from this same show with Sir George Martin and Brian Wilson. Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9z8xHkSMdo

ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

Every note I play reminds me I'm standing on the shoulders of giants... it's unnerving sometimes to wonder how much of a contribution I make and how much is just bubbling up from the subconscious.

It sort of makes listening to other peoples music seem dangerous.

LOL. This is so true. Some time ago, my writing partner and I wrote an instrumental song. After listening to what we'd done, we named the song "Little Stoned Animals" because we could clearly hear lines we'd unconsciously "borrowed" from the bands Little Feat, The Rolling Stones and The Animals. Shoulders of giants, indeed.

Best regards,
Bill

ORIGINAL: i8ipop

Bottom Line...I doubt Chris Martin has ever listened to Joe Satriani let alone heard that song before they recorded their own

Can he counter suit for damages on the grounds that being found guilty of listening to Joe may affect the bands credibility causing a resultant loss of merchantability?

Hmm, thanks Marah for posting that comparison. I had to listen to it twice, but I think Joe has a case. There's one thing to rip or borrow a lick here and there, but there is A LOT that is similar rhythmically with the note structures that bears closer scrutiny.

Whether Coldplay did it intentionally, I doubt it. I did a search for Coldplay-influences and the in articles I found - nothing was attributed to Satriani.

Can it really be proven? Maybe not, but I'll be interested to see what happens.

An earlier poster here said it is almost dangerous to listen to others' work while composing, things like this make me sort of agree! LOL

original: songcraft
George Harrison (My Sweet Lord) and many others have all been in this situation and won their case because they proved it was coincidental, unintentional and since the length isn't the whole part (such as the melodies for the whole verse or chorus including chord progression)

but that's not entirely true. yes, it was found that George UNINTENTIONALLY ripped off the melody of He's So Fine, but he didn't WIN -- he LOST! He had to surrender a lot of the royalties of My Sweet Lord.

Last night I started a reread of Inside Tracks.

In the third(?) chapter Jerry Wexler speaks about how the great producers of his generation were all true lovers of music... specifically in regards to their knowledge and enthusiasm for any thing ever recorded (not that it was exclusive to recordings but that's the only practical way to travel back in time). He spoke about how this gave those producers the ability to cull from a deep inventory of riffs and melodies. He wasn't talking about stealing... he was speaking of having moments of "creative" inspiration and implying that one had to listen to and know lots of music to be able to to have creative insights while writing arrangements and producing hit records.

I couldn't agree more. What (very) little success I've ever had working with musicians has always been facilitated by my lifelong interest in listening to the music I have yet to study. Listen Listen Listen... until you just have it floating around inside. :-)

best regards,
mike

ORIGINAL: Beagle

original: songcraft
George Harrison (My Sweet Lord) and many others have all been in this situation and won their case because they proved it was coincidental, unintentional and since the length isn't the whole part (such as the melodies for the whole verse or chorus including chord progression)

but that's not entirely true. yes, it was found that George UNINTENTIONALLY ripped off the melody of He's So Fine, but he didn't WIN -- he LOST! He had to surrender a lot of the royalties of My Sweet Lord.

There was an appeal, the case went on for 12 years, Harrison actually came out of it without much loss if any even-though he had lost the case prior to the appeal.

The case was very complicated, a lot more involved. Harrison was allowed to continue earning royalties for MSL, he did not lose entirely. >>> The biggest loser was Bright Tunes Music Corp! (they went into receivership). And there was one other benefit for Harrison; another hit single: "This Song" - excerpt lyrics: "This tune has nothing Bright about it" LOL!!

Lennon took a real hit for his lifting of Chuck Berry's song 'You Can't Catch Me' lyric for 'Come Together'. IRRC Harrison's final settlement...which took years and years...did not amount to much in relation to what the song generated for him. And I believe his estate now owns the rights to "He's So Fine' too.

I think John Fogerty won that one....And, as a result, he started playing CCR tunes at his shows again......IIRC...

How many songs have we all heard that remind us of something else? The lawsuits will only come up when there's a lot of potential $ involved.....

How about the verse(s) to "Cochese" by Audioslave? Sounds a lot like "Whole Lotta Love" by Led Zeppelin, vocally, anyway....

Weak.

Does Joe owe some cash to a bookie or something?

They are a little bit similar in a couple spots...but I seriously doubt Coldplay went rummaging through the catalog of some has-been guitarist looking for stuff to steal.

Although....this is Coldplay's first decent showing. So....I can understand the suspicion.

This lawsuit reminds me of the recent one in which The Black Crowes are suing Gretchen Wilson. Though I find that case to be a little more clear cut. Still, sometimes it's hard to tell if there really was copyright infringement or mere coincidence.

The problem is that so much music is copied off of something else and this comedian shows. Pachelbel's Canon in D major is based on a typical and predictable chord progression. As he shows so many artists have used this chord progression over the years. I wouldn't necessarily call it plagiarism.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM

Its a funny video anyway!!!

I don't think Joe has got a case....imagine all those blues artists getting sued by who ever recorded the blues 1st. If Coldplay had lifted and looped Joe it would be a different story.