Mixing: Can't hear bass in simple mix

I have a little problem.

I am experimenting with sound in a **very** simple mix -- recorded acoustic guitar plus a MIDI bass part -- that's it. No drums.. no vocal.. nothing else. I'm just trying to get the sound right.

I am happy with the guitar... recorded with X-Y mic placement... the right channel nudged by 3ms to give a wider stereo effect, plus some gentle EQing. I'm happy with how it sounds. I have a shelving EQ setting of -6dB at 150Hz... gets rid of some boominess, and also thought it would help provide a hole for the bass....

With the bass... I'm not after a genuine bass guitar sound. Just some nice warm deep tones to provide a fuller sound. I don't really care if they sound synthesized...

I've tried the bass patches (synth and real) in Dimension LE, I've tried a few free VST bass instruments, and I've tried a couple of soundfont basses, and although I can hear the bass note (single notes btw), I can't feel them. I punched up the bass as high as it will go, and turned the acoustic guitar down... the bass is still completely toothless. Spectral analyser shows 50-100Hz to be dominant in the mix. What am I missing? (apart from obvious skill)

btw, I'm mixing down to MP3... playback is via an mp3player connected to a Bose Lifestyle system...

Can't hear the bass through a Bose....

I want to be sure that you understand that this is respectful, and that I'm not dissing you, but playing mp3s through a Bose is a sure fire recipe for "no bass". Bose speakers are (in my humble opinion) treble machines. I personally hate them (although others indeed love them).

For purposes of monitoring during tracking & mixing, we want to have as FLAT a monitoring system as possible. Bose systems are anything but flat. They are insanely hyped. You might want to look in to flatter monitors.

And why are you monitoring mp3s instead of the actual source wavs?

Hope this is helpful; best,
Ed

OK, we're getting somewhere. Do you compare (stylistically similar) comercial releases to your "song in progress" on your main tracking monitors? I have to wonder if maybe those monitors may not be accurate with regard to bass (if you have trouble hearing it in other systems).

In other words, constantly compare ( A / B your playback) - pro CD / your mix / pro CD / your mix - while you track and mix - and I think that then you'll find your mixing judgements will evolve as you hope they will.

HTH,
Ed

even listening thru an mp3 player isn't a true reflection of the sound,.. my friend didn't know what to say when his girlfriend bought him a new mp3 player ( which brand will remain nameless ).. and the low end (bass) was pretty poor..

you want a balance with the lower frequencies so it will make a sub work... BUT not over power it.. then there is the thing with bass for people who don't have a woofer or just speakers in the 50hz + area

the commercial cd's your probably listening to have the bass at 30hz+ and have side chaining maybe around 80hz for the kick drum, so they don't clash

it is something you have to read up about , there is the mixing guide on the izotope website you can even download that will give you some pointers that are relevant, even if you don't own ozone. Also have a look at the techniques part of the forum.

Every Single post here was equipment related.

Heres some ideas, double your bass part, layer up a synth and a bass sound in unison, EQ it to bring out the warmth, compress it to make it more punchy, sidechain so that the bass ducks the acousit guitar slightly. Double the Acoustic guitar, pan the two parts left and right and leave the bass in teh centre. These are all possibilites, use one or more likely a combination

Now I know without proper monitors etc you will struggle, but I think the above our worth trying before he gives up on his existing monitors.

G

Every Single post here was equipment related

Because hes using small pc speakers to mix. If he doubles his bass using pc speakers, his mix will be bass heavy. He need the right hardware so he knows the true sound.
You cannot mix, which you cannot hear

Cheap yes, but supposedly have a flat response... flat-ish anyway...

Are you sure?? PC speakers are not meant for monitoring and mixing. You are not hearing the true sound. This is your problem. The pc speakers your mixing through is your problem. Probably one of many
Cj

Thanks for the positive spin :)

They are not PC speakers... they are near field audio monitors. They are designed to provide flat frequency response, except that given their price, I assume they're not particularly good at it...

But that said, it does not explain this fact --- I can distinguish the bass very clearly on these monitors, but not when I play a mixdown version on a consumer hifi, even though the bass levels are high and I can see them clearly on a spectrum analyser...

This consumer hifi reproduces bass clearly on professional CDs, so it isn't the problem. Obviously something is tho....

Greetings,

I hate to come it so late, and I might be completely wrong, but have you considered a speaker phasing issue. If any of your speakers are out of phase, the bass is going to be affected first and worst. It might explain the differences you are hearing.

Regards,
David

The secret punch within most basses can be found within the first few partials and not in the fundamental frequency.

In general, stay out of the sub-50hz range. Getting a clean bass sound often requires use of a high pass filter to clean out this area. A little bit of sub goes a very long way.

Try this experiement -- take a commercial CD and play it in Sonar. Find a track where you hear the kind of well-defined bass line for which you are looking. Then drop a graphic EQ in the Fx bin and start reducing the gain (by 12 db) in each octave, sequentially down the scale, beginning with the octave around 3.2KHz. (Reduce 3.2KHz by -12db and listen. Next reduce 1.6KHz and listen. Next reduce 700Hz and listen, etc.) A&B with each octave if you like -- this is often most effective.

Did you notice where you begin to lose the bass's punch, and how each octave effects the sound?

i'm with kwgm on this one..

i find that reducing the lows on the bass tracks 45-55hz with a high pass, then allows me to mix the bass tracks a bit hotter, with frequencies that seem to translate better across more systems.

also,

could be, you're sitting in an area of your listening environ, that is acting like a bass trap.

simple thing to do, would be to swing your monitors out away from your walls, pointing in a different direction than what you're used to, just to see if it's the shape of the room causing issues...

I hate to come it so late, and I might be completely wrong, but have you considered a speaker phasing issue. If any of your speakers are out of phase, the bass is going to be affected first and worst. It might explain the differences you are hearing.

Did you ever check this?