Z3ta+ Bank Changes

Hi, Im trying to use this program inside of Sonar 7 Pro. Ed. In the track view, when I try to make a bank change it is listed as Bank 0,1,2,3,4,5, and not A,B,C,D,F so when I try to change to any bank other than A, once play is pushed the program reverts back to bank A. Therefore I am only able to use the sounds that's in bank A. I would like to know if anyone has solved this problem, and if I want to use multple sounds from Z3ta do I have to insert a new one each time or can this program be used in a multi mode.

I can confirm this behavior. Bank always jumps back to A even when the other banks are selected. I don't use program change in Sonar so there must be some setting that's not correct. Seems like the Bank message is not sent or is always sending the data to select bank A. Program changes are sent correctly just not bank changes.

You're sending a Bank Change using CC0. Once you send the supported Bank Change CC32, the 'return to Bank A' behavior disappears.

There are a couple of hints found in the z3ta+ User Guide:

The bank also changes when Z3TA+ receives a MIDI Bank Change message.

Any MIDI controller can be learned except CC0, CC32 (bank change), CC120 (all sounds off), CC121 (all controllers off), and CC123 (all notes off).

Using Sonar for an initial bank/program change, change the Bank Select Method from Normal to Controller 32 for the most reliable results.
{See Assigning the Bank Select Method in the Sonar Help file for more information.}

There's an annoying buglet in Sonar that reverts the Bank Select Method label back to Normal* after a Save operation. It doesn't appear to affect functionality, but I always manually revert that setting after a project launch to be on the safe side. It's even better practice to embed CC32 and Program Change events using the Event List View, or record the events from an external source directly into the timeline.

From a keyboard controller, consult your owner's manual on changing Bank Change CC0 [MSB] to Bank Change CC32 [LSB]. In some cases, you may have to substitute a knob/slider/programmable switch for a dedicated Bank Select control. Send a CC32 message with a value between 0 and 5 (corresponding to z3ta+'s Banks A-F).

The sent bank value will remain current until another CC32 value changes the 'active' bank, or z3ta+/host app is closed down. After the CC32 bank change is received by z3ta+, send any program change value from 0-127.

An easy way to verify and explore this process (without Sonar's interference) is to launch z3ta's Microhost.

But I think you are providing a workaround here, as I am sure this is a bug in z3ta+ for three reasons.

You may well be right here. Point#1 is certainly correct, although I can't speak to the inherent differences between programming within the two format specs. I've extrapolated somewhat to come to my conclusion for Point#2. As written in the documentation, that's certainly open to interpretation.

I've combined that with René's online comments; either here, or at the original rgc:audio site. Of course, now I can't find any supporting evidence, or whether this applied to z3ta+ alone or the newer Cakewalk synths, but I do recall a "Bank Change CC0 not supported" comment somewhere. I'm stretching it here, but I'm counting on a level of consistency throughout the various synths in a developing product line.

As for Point#3 ... yes and no. NRPNs in a project can send Rapture/Dimension Pro haywire, yet those messages are still required for host automation. Without knowing the reasoning behind using the LSB only, it'd be speculation only. But there's certainly enough precedent in MIDI hardware/software history that indicates some developers use MSB+LSB, others MSB alone, and still others use LSB exclusively.

Unfortunately for us, the MIDI spec is a set of suggested guidelines, not rules, and specifics in documentation have gotten more & more scarce. Unless it's a Roland keyboard, when's the last time you've seen a complete MIDI Implementation Chart and description of the utilized sysex commands?

can you shed light on the really odd MIDI routing that goes on in S8 (but not in S7) if both the DXi and VSTi versions of z3ta+ are loaded in the same project?

Sorry, but I can't speak to that. For the first time since Sonar 2.2, I'm still holding out on a version upgrade this late in the game. I don't like the current overall direction, and the version-to-version carryover bugs have reached my saturation point. I'm not saying "never", but I'm at the place where 8.3 will have to work some minor miracles. For a change, I'm content to let others lead the charge during this extended beta-testing period.