Operation Pocket Money - a war story.

I posted this in another thread - when I typed it - it affect me so dramatically I thought I would share it - a pretty unique time - unique experiences.

Operation Pocket Money

I was stationed on the USS Coral Sea the day this operation happened. I was a plane captain - worked on the flight deck - had my own plane and pilot that I was responsible for. I was in VA-22, an attack squadron flying A-7E Corsair's during that time. We spent nine months on the ship away from our home base of Lemoore, CA. We had twelve planes, 12 pilots - we lost six of our original pilots and planes during that Westpac cruise.

This operation effectively ended the Vietnam War.

Wow, Clean, thanks for sharing this man... Don't really know what to say - its hard to understand what something like that would be like for those of us who have not served in the military, let alone in a war.

Dave

www.soundclick.com/steakbone

ORIGINAL: CLEAN
I was discharged on February 11, 1973 after refusing to report for duty for a second cruise on the Coral Sea.

You know...I was going to thank you for your service to the country...until you posted this. Sorry...can't respect that at all.

And AndyW, let me clarify. There are two types of Conscientious Objector type of discharges - one based on moral and the other based religious convictions. I was given an honorable discharge as a Conscientious Objector based on my religious convictions. It is very difficult to get a CO status - but one of the main things a person has to have done to qualify for this kind of a status is to have experienced being in a war zone.

I said we are a collection of our experiences because this is where the cumulative experiences of my life led me. I'm proud of the time I spent in the military - I'm also proud of who I became and who I am today - I couldn't and can't change that.

I appreciate your thoughts.

Take care.

No Andy, I appreciate your thoughts - it was a very difficult time for me.

And, btw, the day I was court martialed - anyone in my squadron who wanted to address the military panel that day could. I had a tremendous amount of my fellow brothers in my squadron speak on my behalf that day - not one single negative comment.

And Guilliani showed up at the court martial - he spoke on my behalf also - it was his recommendation that day that got me released.

ORIGINAL: CLEAN

No Andy, I appreciate your thoughts - it was a very difficult time for me.

And, btw, the day I was court martialed - anyone in my squadron who wanted to address the military panel that day could. I had a tremendous amount of my fellow brothers in my squadron speak on my behalf that day - not one single negative comment.

And Guilliani showed up at the court martial - he spoke on my behalf also - it was his recommendation that day that got me released.

That says a lot. I can imagine it was very tough time for you. If the Navy said you deserved a CO discharge who am I to argue I suppose...at least you didn't just drive to Canada...

Mark, thank you sir. Very much.

ORIGINAL: AndyW

ORIGINAL: CLEAN

We are a collection of our experiences.

Fair enough...but we are also a collection of our choices. Not here to bash you for a 30 year old decision...just that I was kinda caught up in your moment and had a heart let-down as I was touched by your original post...then let-down by your "end of the story" statement. To me, quiting erased any good you may have done before. Sorry...that's just the way I see it. I have too much respect for the men and women in uniform like your Commander Giuliani and your other shipmates who did honor their committment. I do understand somewhat better now that you say you went through the official conscientious objector process. That is different that just quiting but I still have a hard time with the whole conscientious objector thing overall. No hard feelings to you however, and take care to you as well. Thank you for the time you did serve.

With all due respect AndyW, I'm calling the horse **** flag on this one.

AndyW I enjoy your company here at the forums and you've taught me lots about the digital part of audio... so I hope we'll get pass this disagreement, but I'm from a long line of actual real life combat vets, (I've never had the honor to serve myself) and my family proudly taught me to have a conscience and to do what's right... and that includes objecting... so I can't help but share a counter opinion.

I grew up with a Dad that had nightmares every night... if you listened carefully you could learn that he was dreaming of people he had killed in close combat... he was 17... it was 1944 and he was proud to do what had to be done... but he came home a lot less proud... my dad more than most people understood what war really was. He ended up in Bastonge for Christmas '45 and eventually freed the few survivors to be found at Auschwitz. I think having to operate a bulldozer and help bury the abandoned dead in mass graves really effected my dad... he learned how inhuman humans can be and he never forgot that.

That was a war a guy could feel good about!

That same guy told me we were going to Canada if my number came up to go to Nam... I was a kid but he understood what was up with that conflict.

Let's not even get started about opinions about Vietnam... I'm more freaked out in general that you would stand in judgment of an individual for making personal decisions about something that is so close to defining what it means to be human... the act of choosing to make or not make war.

I have to admit some of your statements make me wonder... are you unfamiliar with war or are you a warrior that is sincerely gung ho?

Just as a coincidence I was working on Fort Rucker today with the rotary wing pilots... it seems like everyone there is thinking about making a living and keeping their colleagues safe... no service personnel with real life combat experience that I encounter seems to actually want to make war... they just want to be able to end it.



Clean, thanks for your service... but thank you even more for rising to the occasion and growing as a human being and making ethical decisions for yourself.


Obviously I take this stuff personally... that's because I know that it always comes down to someone asking someone like my dad (and a dozen other guys I personally know that were/are just like him) to pay the price he paid so that they can hang at home and craft dialogs about the glories of commitment and honor.


best regards,
mike



PS John Macnamara's Fog of War is a concise video recap of Vietnam should you anyone want a refresher on what was going on in that era.

You're welcome...

It effects me deeply to think of the generations of people all across the globe who have sacrificed to let their children grow and learn... and how as a global society we have moved along so slowly.

Thanks for sharing your story.

best regards,
mike

CLEAN, mike mccue,

I can really appreciate what you guys have said in this thread. I admire those individuals who are willing to take a stand despite the negative consequences. If I saw you guys in a pub, you be the ones I buy a round of drinks for. Even if there was a chance I may be thought of as "That guy is a flake, I hope he doesn't try to come over here" -I'd just leave you be and still buy a round for the both of you anyways.

Mark,
Kudos to you, man!

Hey Clean not to hijack your thread but to add a musical twist to it, Queensryche's new album coming out later this month - American Soldier - is a basically a concept album inspired by veteran's stories from past and current wars. Should be pretty interesting.

http://www.queensryche.com/2009/03/08/queensryche-salutes-troops-w-american-soldier/

A lot of people who have experienced war don't like to talk about it, but for those like yourself who are willing to share your stories, I think it's important for the rest of us to listen. It's easy to sanitize war when you're watching it from your livingroom TV.

Dave

www.soundclick.com/steakbone

BTW, Mike...I'm not here to "fight" with you about this. But it is a worthwhile discussion. I understand your perspective...I just disagree with it. Mark's posts and yours have definitely been good for me to reflect on why I feel the way I do about certain things and to be more thoughtful about this topic in the future.