Color and Music: kin-theories?

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Philip
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2009/03/11 12:31:23 (permalink)

Color and Music: kin-theories?

Skip this if too 'inane'. This is another Philipesque hypothesis only:

Are any of you listening/mixing in colors?
Are paintings and music different by octaves only.

In mixing I'm pretty convinced music and color are kin. Another popular producer has noted this (whose name conveniently eludes me)
Here are some temporary parallels I've 'gathered':

Artistic Primary colors (Red yellow and blue) ... not to be confused with optic primaries (RGB) ... seem a bit like major chord progressions
Secondary colors (Orange green, purple) ... minor chords?

Light Pastels: air and/or exhuberance
Dark Sombers (neutrals, browns, earth tones): bass-line that solidifies the backround ... also backround elements and/or reverb-ambiance of the composition.

Matt vs. Glossiness: freshness vs. depth and reverb

Gold and Silver: glitter embellishments.

What similarities between art and music do you think about while mixing?

Philip  
(Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    jamesg1213
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/11 13:05:51 (permalink)
    Not inane at all Phil, part of what you're talking about is called 'synesthesia' and is a well-known phenomenon. Our own Ed Edge ( 'Maxprism' of the forum) 'hears music in colour'.

     
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    Garry Stubbs
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/11 13:17:10 (permalink)
    Most of my original music is in sepia tone


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    The Maillard Reaction
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/11 14:28:29 (permalink)
    How about the idea that music and sound design serves as temporal sculpture? The color may just be the surface when you begin to imagine sound in it's contextual space.


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    cryophonik
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/11 14:30:44 (permalink)
    One of the singers I work with has synesthesia - she's always "seeing" the different colors in our music. I don't get it, but I do believe that it's a real phenomenon.

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    Roflcopter
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/11 16:45:02 (permalink)
    a real phenomenon.


    Very real. It's a brain function to mix up the informatin from our senses and then split them again, which normally hides the fact, but never entirely succeeds, it's a bit leaky.

    Point is, even though it's a real phenomenon, but *how* it expresses itself, a highly personal. You can't really put up any rules for it. No 2 synesthetics are the same.

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    foxwolfen
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/11 20:36:16 (permalink)
    While some may claim it exists for them, science has no way (yet) to verify it on a physical level unless a verifable defect is present.

    Thus, much like when dealing with any topic that falls under the heading of perceptual psychology, the phenomenon may be nurture based, not nature. While there may indeed be strong axiomatic parallels between the various perceptual arts (music, graphic, sensual), they each rely on highly differentiated areas of the brain. Crosstalk is possible, but we are talking about a defect, not a "hidden ability".

    It may exist as a positive mutation in a rare few through something like extra connectivity in the corpus colostrum such as found in Einsteins brain. But he is literally one in a billion. For the rest, it may simply be associative; learned behavior.

    As some of you know, I am an artist, composer, musician, and author. Because I am multi-disciplinary, this is an interesting question. One that I am actually able to address. To answer the question, no I do not find too many parallels between the arts in the manner you describe. The spacial perceptions I have for say visual vs auditory are very different.

    Each aspect of my creative ability exists somewhat outside the others. Yes, there is texture in sound, and texture in visuals, and texture we can touch... but they all describe only one tiny aspect of the totality of the perceptual phenomenon; the object or sound in question. In many ways I feel they really only relate to a perceptual understanding that must be learned and the shared between others with a common understanding.

    Of course, I could be completely wrong.

    post edited by foxwolfen - 2009/03/11 20:44:09

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    Roflcopter
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/11 21:38:13 (permalink)
    Well, it's just a matter of actual brain architecture that our sensorial information gets intermixed on several levels, but normally without our noticing. Nature decided to do things this way, probably for integration/timing purposes.

    You're correct in saying it's a defect. Then again, it can be a creative bonus - and let's not forget that 'character' is nothing more than the sum total of our defects. Perfection ain't everything either.

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    Philip
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/12 00:45:40 (permalink)
    Well, I also heard (on some bizarre tape) that our ears essentially see at lower frequencies than

    our eyes ... several octaves lower.

    But if that were true there'd be some kind of empirical harmonic connection as well. The eyes would

    theoretically see the upper harmonics of musical waves in their exact color spectrum

    ... and/or detectable as heat as their ultra-high harmonics double into the infared frequencies (well above

    20kHz).

    But I was pondering more on psycho-acoustics kinship with psycho-visuals in art and music ... more than synesthesia, genetics, and psychotic defects. Albeit, the producer who had to see music elements as colors may have had synesthesia.

    Color (proper) was one example ... but also texture (as Shad pointed out), depth, timbre, width, length, seem similar in the space time continuum.

    I'd paint a picture and strive for creative 3-D appearing 'beauties'. Musical engineering hijacks on exquisite sensory parameters as does visual-artistry (left side of brain, etc.) ...

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    Roflcopter
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/12 05:44:22 (permalink)
    Harmonics come with the territory - they are a phenomenon 1 on 1 with electromagnetism, and *all* of its physical expressions. All vibration, essentially.

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    Philip
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/12 15:20:30 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Roflcopter

    Harmonics come with the territory - they are a phenomenon 1 on 1 with electromagnetism, and *all* of its physical expressions. All vibration, essentially.

    Very well! So the phenomenon should be measurable.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    mcourter
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/12 15:28:50 (permalink)
    Talk about deja vu. Haven't we seen this exact thread before?

    Let me recommend Alfred Besters' "The Stars My Destination." It has a terrific, albeit fictional, rendition of what it must be like to suffer synaesthesia.

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    Roflcopter
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/12 17:40:42 (permalink)
    Alfred Bester


    Maybe my favourite SF writer of all times. Absolutely original.

    @Philip
    So the phenomenon should be measurable.


    Well, harmonics can be found just about everywhere. They are not really the issue, though. Synesthesia is just crosstalk on the wires, and even though all senses share some 'metric', there is no real functional or repeatable'translation' - it's super-individual, non-translatable - even though harmonics are universal and a scale-invariant phenomenon pervading all of physics.

    post edited by Roflcopter - 2009/03/12 17:46:43

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    mgh
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/12 18:07:35 (permalink)
    it was quite fashionable in classical music at one time, i think Alexander Scriabin was the most famous exponent, and there have been numerous 'colour organs' (oo-er, make sure safe search is on before you try that in google, i'd imagine...) invented...

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    Roflcopter
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/12 18:59:04 (permalink)
    oo-er, make sure safe search is on




    In about 1742, Castel proposed the clavecin oculaire (a light organ) as an instrument to produce both sound and the 'proper' light colors.

    Note the quotation marks. Proper in Latin means 'it's own', the 'right one', the 'right accompaniment'.

    Bullsh*t, alas.

    It's as much a science as astrology can be. Not. Any 'system' would be arbitrary.

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    Philip
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/13 14:30:48 (permalink)
    In about 1742, Castel proposed the clavecin oculaire (a light organ) as an instrument to produce both sound and the 'proper' light colors.

    Note the quotation marks. Proper in Latin means 'it's own', the 'right one', the 'right accompaniment'.

    Bullsh*t, alas.

    It's as much a science as astrology can be. Not. Any 'system' would be arbitrary.

    I suppose synesthesia, then, is more of a fad or phase of development (in my case). I still percieve many parallels btw art and music, but don't have coherent words to describe them the best.

    There seem conflicting theories of personality, p@lotics, r*ligion, astrology, numerology, music, art, and even on defining 'scientific theories'. Theoretical definitions of scientific theories -- haha! What an oxymoron! What 2 persons will ever see eye to eye on music and art ... let alone comparing the 2.

    So much "bullsh*t ... but the *theories* haunt me ... like I've learned *something* non-arbitrary from every psychotic (myself foremost): without getting p*litical or r*ligious ... heehee!

    Any further comments, questions, discussions? Remember, the only bad question is ... ?

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    Roflcopter
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    RE: Color and Music: kin-theories? 2009/03/13 14:59:29 (permalink)
    Well to my mind there's only 3 things about this whole story that can be used positively:

    - it can be a creative bonus, and if nothing else, a great mnemonic device. (What made you choose those exact notes? Oh, I just picked the ones that smelled a bit green.)

    - you *can* improve your 'feel' for 'correct' proportions/rhtythms in multiple fields by studying the underlying principles - that's basically mathematics, and a bit of physics (harmonics).

    - the realisation that all our senses are at one point intermixed makes it clear that a person should develop on multiple levels. Music is stronger if it is accompanied by ditto images, for example. Check youtube for examples. So a modern musician should ideally do his own videos as well, or at least *think* about how he wants them, and in pretty great detail. If done correctly, that should be a far more convincing experience than anything slapped on later by someone not even really familiar with the track. Instant recipe for oblivion, these days.

    I'm a perfectionist, and perfect is a skinned knee.
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