Help me figure out how to...

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jshep0102
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2009/04/02 22:50:03 (permalink)

Help me figure out how to...

I have recorded a whole song (both midi and audio) at 105 bpm. Song is 132 measures long. I need to goose the tempo up about 4 clicks during a section that plays once then repeats later. I've inserted the tempo, and the midi responds, but not the audio. I tried splitting the tracks in half (they were to big to groove clip). After applying 'enable looping' to all the tracks, they are all very out of time, before adding any tempo changes. Need advice on how to make this work. Thanks very much, Shep
post edited by jshep0102 - 2009/04/03 01:13:57

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    jinga8
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    RE: Help me figure out how to... 2009/04/02 22:55:09 (permalink)
    Audiosnap. The offline algorithms should be used once you get the timing the way you want it.
    #2
    jshep0102
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    RE: Help me figure out how to... 2009/04/02 23:02:24 (permalink)
    Sorry, but I don't understand. If it's in time now, and I change the tempo, why doesn't everything move the same amount? Also, please explain 'offline algorithms'.... Where are they, what do they do, how do I know which one(s) to use? I've read til I'm blue - attempts haven't worke the way the book says, and the book doesn't (to my understanding) tell how to accomplish this. Thanks alot, Shep

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    Marah
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    RE: Help me figure out how to... 2009/04/02 23:18:12 (permalink)
    Are you ready to mix? The easiest way might be to mix without the tempo changes, and then bring the mix into Reaper and do the tempo adjusts there. Much more control with a fraction of the hassle.

    If you're not ready to mix... and want to hear the tempo changes as you continue production... hmmm... are you ready to render the MIDI? If so, then I would again advise doing that without any tempo changes, then render the appropriate stems, import them into Reaper, and again, do the tempo shifts there. After adding the tempo changes in Reaper, you can render the individual tempo-adjusted tracks, and bring them back into Sonar for mixing.

    If you're not yet ready to render your MIDI, but still want to hear your tempo changes as you continue recording MIDI or audio... then in many ways Reaper is again the best way to do that, BUT it's not nearly as easy as the two suggestions above... cos that would essentially amount to shifting platforms mid project, and that's not a good idea -- unless you already know the other platform, and even then it might not be a good idea. In that case, you're probably better off doing it in Sonar. But I've always found after-the-fact tempo changes in Sonar, especially involving both MIDI and audio, to be a pretty futzy and trying process. Not sure I've ever successfully done it, though instructions for doing it are all over the place. Hence my suggestion to wait until as late as possible, even post-mixing, and then do it with Reaper. At that point there's not much to it and it'll probably take you less total time, and sound at least as good, than doing it sooner in Sonar.

    If it's in time now, and I change the tempo, why doesn't everything move the same amount?


    That's a great question. If only there was a good answer for it.
    post edited by Marah - 2009/04/02 23:30:04
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    bitSync
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    RE: Help me figure out how to... 2009/04/03 00:16:05 (permalink)
    In my opinion, this is kind of a big deal for a DAW. If the intent is to truly integrate audio and MIDI, there should be a way to apply tempo changes established from an audio track focus or from a MIDI track focus across (optionally) all of the other tracks in the project such that they share a common time base. Once that common time base is shared across a collection of tracks, stretching audio (or ****ing tempo), for example, for a region of the material should have the instantaneous effect of ****ing tempo in all related tracks, whether audio or MIDI. For MIDI, reacting to an adjustment in tempo is a simple matter of adjusting the timing of MIDI events. For audio, its a matter of resampling all audio in that temporal region across tracks to keep the material on pitch for the new time base.

    Nuances in tempo are one of those things we use to humanize our compositions. It also influences us as we compose and produce, so it seems unreasonable from an artistic perspective to have to wait until we mix it to fix it, or to go to another app or go offline, etc. I think one should be able to click-drag a measure or sub-measure boundary horizontally to effortlessly tweak tempo project-wide. Project-wide tempo management should not only be much easier for the user, it should be baked into the fundamental behavior of the DAW.

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    #5
    jshep0102
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    RE: Help me figure out how to... 2009/04/03 01:06:10 (permalink)
    Thanks for the enlightening replies/thoughts on the matter. I will take a copy of the chart and try Audiosnap yet again. But as well, I think I'll try Marah's Reaper after the job is done idea. Still listening for a consummate 'Do it like this' reply...

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    MaestroGeek
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    RE: Help me figure out how to... 2009/04/03 01:49:21 (permalink)
    With AudioSnap, you can either have your audio track dictate your tempo map or have your MIDI tempo map dictate your audio. I assume you're trying to change a section of your audio track to change tempo?
    And here's a little thing on different AudioSnap algorithms: SONAR 7 AudioSnap Algorithms
    Also, a quick guide on how to use AudioSnap: More Reasons to Love SONAR -- Audiosnap

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    jasonthurley
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    Re: RE: Help me figure out how to... 2010/07/22 17:25:28 (permalink)
    My suggestion is to bounce everything down to 2 track... Then open a new Sonar project... Import the file..

    Then select the parts you want to apply the tempo adjust... everything will be lined up already and it will adjust the one track to whatever you want....

    Another way to do it is to export the audio/midi to a 2 track.. then cut the 2 sections you want to change tempo out of the 2 track.. import them into Sonar and adjust tempo.. then export them and splice them together..

    Have fun
    #8
    brundlefly
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    Re: RE: Help me figure out how to... 2010/07/22 17:52:05 (permalink)
    Jason, if you are not the latest incarnation of reader1, having a little fun with the forum by resurrecting ancient posts, I think you need to re-sort your display so you're looking at new stuff.
    #9
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: RE: Help me figure out how to... 2010/07/23 05:30:18 (permalink)
    brundle

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