NON professional Studio

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LoganIV
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2009/04/29 11:03:15 (permalink)

NON professional Studio

Ok.. first of all.. Hello.

Second.. I'm sorry if this has been re-hashed to death.. I'm sure its been covered numerous times.. I just don't have time to search all the posts and threads.. I did do a couple of searches and I scrolled through the forums.. weird.. I can search on GOOGLE and find more Cakewalk forum Post topics and replies that I can find by searching on this site.. so.. if i'm not following some standard forum procedure, I apologize....... Anyway.. here's the deal.
I want to create some music.. Now, I remember (way back) using my Commodore 64 and creating Distored Guitar sounds with the three voice Osc's (Tony IoMMi would've been proud)), assigning the keyboard letters and creating a two octave synth.. then recording it with a dual cassette recorder.... I even used an old Casio, Yamaha and a four track recorder.. My point is.. I'm poor. I don't have $1000's of dollars to spend on fancy equipment.. and I don't believe Music creating should only be for the wealthy... I was doing okay with my Audigy card and SONAR, but I've out grown it.. now I want to use More soft-synth tracks and more percussion.. ONE Problem is.... I really don't want to give up SOUNDFONTS, but I need a powerful Soundcard or Audio interface that is capable of holding soundbanks, but also can handle multiple Soft-synth tracks without overloading the CPU and crapping out. (sorry what's the tech term when it sputters and cracks and drops out..)

Please try and be nice.. Ive seen some really nasty replies when people like me (Amature Music creation enthusiast) come on and ask for help. I just need some help creating a DAW that consists of nothing more than a decent soundcard and a few soft-synth programs, and a sequencer...
SO.. my question is.. What soundcard or cards could I use to accomplish what I'm looking for?? ie.. use of soundfonts.. low latency... adequate power Tried using X-FI.. won't work with EMU.. how about some other brands?? for about $300???

Presently: SONAR 7 PRO ; Zta3+ , Rapture , etc...; an EMU-1212m ; Roland D50 , M-audio Radium.

Currently using PENT 4 / 3.2 gightz 2 gig ram ( i know my system may need to be upgraded.. I will do that in the near future)

Thank you....

LIV- don't just exist
post edited by LoganIV - 2009/04/29 16:26:26
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    lazarous
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    RE: NON professional Studio 2009/04/29 13:04:58 (permalink)
    Go find a used M-Audio Audiophile 2496. It'll be a substantial step up, and probably won't cost you more than $50 or so. To step up from that, go with the Audiophile 192, which has balanced 1/4" ins/outs, and a Zero-Latency monitoring option. It'll run you about $150 or so, perhaps less.

    Good luck!

    Corey

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    #2
    Jim Roseberry
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    RE: NON professional Studio 2009/04/29 16:48:21 (permalink)
    but I need a powerful Soundcard or Audio interface that is capable of holding soundbanks, but also can handle multiple Soft-synth tracks without overloading the CPU and crapping out. (sorry what's the tech term when it sputters and cracks and drops out..)


    Move the sound-fonts to a soft-synth for playback. (Sonar includes SFZ which can load/play soundfonts.)
    Corey mentioned using an Audiophile 2496 or Audiophile 192. Both are excellent stereo I/O audio interfaces (rock-solid drivers and will deliver low round-trip latency).

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
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    #3
    rstollen
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    RE: NON professional Studio 2009/04/29 19:21:34 (permalink)
    Hey LoganIV - Welcome to the forum - I'm pretty new myself.

    +1 on what Jim and Corey wrote. The only thing that I'll add is that your Pentium 4 may be plenty adequate for a while. In other words, if you're just getting started, the combination of Sonar and the M-Audio card should run nicely with Win XP and 2GB.

    Of course, this assumes that your system is running pretty "clean", meaning that it's not bogged down with spyware from being on the internet, and not using a resource-hog anti-virus program, etc.
    post edited by rstollen - 2009/04/29 19:32:03

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    cindi0128
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    RE: NON professional Studio 2009/04/30 20:22:18 (permalink)
    Hi-

    I have written a blog on my website that addresses these very issues. I started it because over the years I keep being asked if I teach piano (13 years formal training thru 1st year of college), and I wrote an article for a woman from church to let her know how to do this for her 6-year-old daughter, then I decided that it was too good to give to just one person, so I posted a blog on my web site, sing.us.com; click the tab that says Home Music Lessons. You'll learn a lot by reading my article, and I think you'll feel more comfortable as well.

    Although I am not experienced with the other software people here are recommending, I will say that I own Cakewalk Music Creator 2003, 4, and SONAR Home Studio 7 XL, and I can tell you that I feel the same way you do about music production! I'm currently learning to mix down music the proper way from those programs. After you get comfortable with the software discussed in the next paragraph, I'd take a good look at Cakewalk Music Creator 4 - it comes with video tutorials that will help explain mixing when you're more comfortable learning more - in the interim, it's a good program to have so that you can play on your keyboard and keep a permanent copy of your song in MIDI - my web site blog explains that too.

    For someone who wants to be at an amateur level and enjoy producing music (and not fuss with the technicality of mixing down), you can record into Cakewalk Pyro (I have the 2003 version) and remove the cracks and pops and then burn to CD. There are other more current programs out that will do the same thing, but Cakewalk's Pyro Audio Creator doesn't do the same thing, it just appears to only burn (frustrating 'cause you'd think the name denotes that it will record). There's a link on my web site to view several of these types of software. In Section 8, Fun With Sounds / Recording Songs, and just above Section 9, there are 2 banners - the one on the left is a shopping list of affordable programs that do this.

    Anyway, visit my blog, and feel free to email me from there if you have more questions. I have extensive links there that you can go shopping a lot easier with (because I've preshopped and found equipment that is suitable and affordable); just note that on the software tutorials lists (for learning how to play piano) that I have listed all children's tutorials first before the beginner's tutorials. My links are from affiliate programs that I am a member of, and for your own personal info, web sites who are members of affiliate programs are required to be legitimate sites that do not participate in malicious web activities (they monitor my web site to make sure I'm legit).

    I hope this helps, and you have a great day!

    Cindi
    #5
    RobertB
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    RE: NON professional Studio 2009/05/01 20:20:35 (permalink)
    LoganIV
    It looks like you may have edited and added the info about the E-MU1212m after the M-Audio 2496 and 192 were suggested.
    The E-MU is actually a pretty good sound card, and the M-Audio cards would be a lateral move, if not a step down.
    Outside of Soundblasters, I don't believe any sound card can load sound fonts. It's a Soundblaster thing.
    As Jim mentioned, software sound font players are the answer for that.
    Your sound card won't really affect how many soft synths you can run. That's a function of your CPU.
    If your latency is set too low, you will get those crackles with soft synths. On my system, 8ms works well, with no percieved latency.ymmv.
    If you are recording your synth tracks real-time with a controller, you can freeze the synths you are not actively working on. This will save a ton of CPU overhead.
    If you are mixing, and only playing the tracks back (not recording), you can bump your latency out to 50ms or more as needed. This gives the CPU more room to breathe.
    Bottom line, a new sound card isn't the answer for what you want to do. You already have a good one.
    Save up for a new computer, and in the meantime, adjust your workflow to work with the tools you have.
    You can squeeze a lot out of that P4 if you treat it right.

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    LoganIV
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    RE: NON professional Studio 2009/05/05 03:17:03 (permalink)
    Thank you all for your replies.. You've been very helpful. I did find out that I believe I have a MB problem.. I cannot get any sound out of any soft synth that I load up.. I have even tried using ZTA3+ in stand alone mode.. I have decided to upgrade. I saw some really good deals at Newegg and I will start fresh on a new system. I think most of my frustrations were actually having nothing to do with my soundcard. I tried four out.. I have a SB live, an Audigy II, and a X-FI Fatality , plus the EMU 1212m...none of them would work.. I could see the input being registered, although no output.. but the GM soundbank worked fine.. I tried two different programs.. Sonar 6 and 7.. and I even wiped a harddrive and Installed a new platform from scratch... nuttin... SO, When my shipment comes in. I'll let ya know how it goes..

    Another Question.. while I'm here.. Anyone having any major issues with VISTA.. thought I might upgrade to that as well..

    LIV-its the real thing..
    #7
    Guitarhacker
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    RE: NON professional Studio 2009/05/05 08:46:58 (permalink)
    Logan...you said....

    I cannot get any sound out of any soft synth that I load up.. I have even tried using ZTA3+ in stand alone mode..



    do you mean....like now? or you NEVER...EVER...got any sound outta them?

    If the answer is never..... you might just need to learn how to get sound. If this is the case..... go to my web site...and read and work through the info I have there on working with soft synths, and how to set them up properly. That might be your only problem....

    I love soft synths now.... but not to long ago...I hated them, mostly because I didn't understand them, or know how to set them up. Once I figured it out..... I thought there might be others like me, so I set up my site to help people get started with software synths.

    When you go there...start with a new project....and follow as close as possible to the instructions.

    I hope this helps.... because what RobertB said is correct...you have a very fine card and a capable system now. You should be able to get most synths to play smoothly on that system.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2009/05/05 08:57:31

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    LoganIV
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    RE: NON professional Studio 2009/05/05 14:39:23 (permalink)
    I used to have the softsynths working through the Audigy card.. I was just starting to get used to working with Softsynth plugings and then I lost most of my stuff in Hurricane Ike. I saved the tower unit but it got banged around a bit...so, I built another computer using a 3.0 prescott I bought , and a PGA-478 MB I pulled out of a Dell. I was unhappy with Audigy's performance so I bought an X-FI fatality.... then when that wouldn't work right, I figured it wasn't meant for music creation so went to FRY's and got an EMU1212m.. I installed the EMU and Audigy ( I used audigy only because I was familiar with it))..and they wouldn't communicate together, but I had softsynth capabilities.. just no SOUNDFONTS.. the audigy drivers got pushed out... sooo... i was trying to get around this by changing out the EMU and putting in the X-FI.. but then it wasn't working.. so.. I tried changing my line in inputs around..and I must have sent a static shock or something , i was changing out the jacks (thinking it might be my cord)..and I had the computer running..then it reset... now I can't get any card to work correctly.. except, I have sounds for gaming or Media players, but if I try to use a softsynth.. I do not hear any sounds... I believe I've checked everything.. the only thing I can figure is I fried a part of the chipset on the MB that busses the audio or that kind of thing.. Although.. since I'm no expert at that kind of stuff.. I mostly have to troubleshoot by trial and error, and process of elimination. Now... I think I'm going to read and learn a bit about what part the MB plays in routing Audio that is Software driven.... then maybe get on here and read some of the forums and learn about SONAR more....I'm tired of being ignorant .. it's costing me too much.. :D I went ahead and ordered a Core2Duo E8500 BareBone UNIT.. couldn't hurt...


    LIV-one chance is all you get

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    Guitarhacker
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    RE: NON professional Studio 2009/05/05 15:24:15 (permalink)
    Wow...that's a lot of stuff.... What I have discovered is that there are two ways to do something...the right way...and the other way.

    I also was trying to piece together a studio...little bit of this...little bit of that.... I hope this works with that...kinda thing..... I got so stinking frustrated, because what I spent trying to piece it together...time and money....I coulda bought some nice stuff that worked.... and been recording.

    So that's what I did.... sold all the misc crap on Ebay to others who were probably trying the same plan.... I started from scratch and bought a new lap top, a new Saffire firewire interface, and a new software recording platform (MC4)...and set it up, and have not looked back since.

    It sounds like you are starting with a new barebones box...so do it right....get the parts you need to make it all work.

    There's something to be said for being frugal and putting a system together from spare parts..... but there is also a lot to be said for buying what you need for a smooth running rig!!!


    EDIT: quite a few here have built their rigs from a bare bones box...so ask around and get the advice you need for success.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2009/05/05 15:33:46

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    RobertB
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    RE: NON professional Studio 2009/05/05 18:50:30 (permalink)
    When you get the new unit, install ONLY the E-MU. The E-MU and Soundblaster drivers mess with each other too much (which may be the root of your problem).
    If you were getting sound from your media players, the sound card was working, and the soft synth issue is probably related to some setup/routing errors with Patchmix and/or Sonar. It can be tricky to set it up right.

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    Guitarhacker
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    RE: NON professional Studio 2009/05/05 20:58:04 (permalink)
    Patch mix.... that's a pain at times... but it sounds really good..... I think RobertB is an Emu expert.... so pick his brain.

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    batsbrew
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    RE: NON professional Studio 2009/05/06 11:37:41 (permalink)
    i use the 192 card...
    it's a great card.

    i also have my older 24/96 card in my home system...


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