Marketing Failure

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a.cakewalk2@uio9.org
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2009/06/24 20:09:22 (permalink)

Marketing Failure

I'm sure I'm not the first to make this observation, but it is amazing that Cakewalk could fail with such a useful and innovative product as P5. The failure, imho, is entirely on the business and marketing end. I remember once a couple years ago picking up the P5 box in Best Buy and thinking, "wow, the text here is all marketing gibberish. Someone reading this would have no idea what makes P5 unique, how it is differentiated from other products, what type of work it excels at, or even what it is!" Similarly with the website. It was all garbage. Cakewalk could easily have made P5 into the lead product in the market for people who want to compose music without playing musical instruments, if they could have communicated that (not a hard task). And by compose, I don't mean drag and drop samples. And it was cheap too! Every high school music student in the world could have used P5 to study basic composition. What a sad failure and waste of all that effort for lack of a little intelligence...

Cheers,
A
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    muso_price
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/24 20:59:12 (permalink)
    I really have to agree with you

    Steinberg tried to copy it with Sequel and if they had included support for VST's maybe more would have come of it. I also remember the videos for Tracktion 2 making a big deal out of the one window interface, this is what we love about P5.

    Also cast your mind back to the P606 (I think that's what it was called) this was a piece of hardware that integrated with a modified version of Kinetic, this was three/four years ago! What are all the companies doing now? Well Maschine springs to mind!

    Cakewalk have made some innovative software products but it looks like real innovators tend to move on and I mean no disrespect to the current members of staff.

    I have nothing but admiration for whoever designed Project 5, such a simple interface that belies its power.

    The trouble is most of the products like Kinetic, Project 5 and Sequel are only there to serve as an introduction to the company. The company are hoping that once you buy they're cheaper offerings you end up buying their flagship DAW. As far as Project 5 goes it did the job I would say most of us have SONAR, but it seems none of us really like it and continue to use Project 5, that must be annoying




    #2
    Digital Aura
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/24 21:36:20 (permalink)
    yup.
    #3
    EarthBound
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/24 22:15:21 (permalink)
    yup-pers

    My Music...over 20 songs now! 

    Built by me PC- unclocked I7/liquid cooled/16G-RAM (with potential of 32G)/2TB-ROM/MIAMIDI-sc/killer 1G gc/V5 case/1000w/Blue Fans everywhere/6G-SATA connections/its pretty
    #4
    AT
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/25 01:56:53 (permalink)
    The only caveat is that P5 V2 was pretty expensive when it came out, although it included the flagship Dimension, too. What was it, $300. Not an intro product. Of course, it still lead to a lot of SONAR sales. But it was a step above traction, price wise.

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
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    #5
    DayDrumFour
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/25 04:03:16 (permalink)
    I really wished P5 would end up with a new owner (it happens) and this is no disrespect to Cakewalk.
    They have their hands full with Sonar as it may be the best full blown DAW out there.
    Yet still, I keep coming back to P5 and it's like I'm home again.

    I have authentic analog drum machine samples.
    #6
    xylyx
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/25 14:24:06 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: muso_price

    The trouble is most of the products like Kinetic, Project 5 and Sequel are only there to serve as an introduction to the company. The company are hoping that once you buy they're cheaper offerings you end up buying their flagship DAW.


    At least Steinberg had the good sense to include the import of Sequel files into Cubase...
    #7
    Chris in Indy
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/30 04:05:23 (permalink)
    I couldn't agree more. My son and some of his friends (in their twenties) have taken to music creation. (club music and such) Once in a while they will come into my studio and see P5 on my screen and ask about it.
    Most of them have never heard of it, let alone know what it does. I think some of them have fallen into the FruityLoops arena.

    When I let them play around with it, they fall in love with it immediately, and want to know where they can obtain it.

    So sad ...................



    Chris in Indy ............... 
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    #8
    wrench45us
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/30 08:27:12 (permalink)

    sad, schmad
    this sounds like opportunity knocking for Chris in Indy to start some sort of business
    catering to the 20-something music creators in Indiana

    Cakewalk's in the rear view mirror
    you have eager customers with disposable income in front of you

    (as opposed to eager income with disposable customers - keep the differnence in mind and you'll do well)


     


    #9
    Brando
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/30 11:18:49 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: a.cakewalk2@uio9.org

    I'm sure I'm not the first to make this observation, but it is amazing that Cakewalk could fail with such a useful and innovative product as P5. The failure, imho, is entirely on the business and marketing end.


    The marketplace is full of examples of similar stories - superior products that fail to take off. Arguably, we should all be driving Deloreans, watching Beta's (or HDDVD's), etc, etc.
    Utlimately, sales never met Cakewalk's expectations for this product. IMO, sometimes it comes down to knowing when to pull the plug. Cake knows the market and its potential as well as anyone.
    I fully expect that P5 will show up in future Cakewalk products - I see a super synth with a P5 user interface on the horizon.

    Brando
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    #10
    Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/30 11:29:33 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: a.cakewalk2@uio9.org

    I'm sure I'm not the first to make this observation, but it is amazing that Cakewalk could fail with such a useful and innovative product as P5. The failure, imho, is entirely on the business and marketing end. I remember once a couple years ago picking up the P5 box in Best Buy and thinking, "wow, the text here is all marketing gibberish. Someone reading this would have no idea what makes P5 unique, how it is differentiated from other products, what type of work it excels at, or even what it is!" Similarly with the website. It was all garbage. Cakewalk could easily have made P5 into the lead product in the market for people who want to compose music without playing musical instruments, if they could have communicated that (not a hard task). And by compose, I don't mean drag and drop samples. And it was cheap too! Every high school music student in the world could have used P5 to study basic composition. What a sad failure and waste of all that effort for lack of a little intelligence...

    Cheers,
    A


    Not to sound snippy, but I'll just say that it is quite clear you don't actually work at Cakewalk and don't know all the details. It's much more complicated than that and that's simply all I can say. We're all really not that stupid I assure you. "A lack of a little intelligence" is most certainly not the problem.

    "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG

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    #11
    wrench45us
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/30 11:53:06 (permalink)

    I think Brandon's earned the right to be as snippy as he wants to be

    and has shown amazing restraint
    (if we could get someone to just loosen him up some evening at trade show or a road tour, I'm sure the stories he could tell would curl your hair,
    but in the end it wouldn't make any difference, so we can let that pass)

    based on my experience,
    I'm sure the real story is as painful on the producer side as it is on the consumer side


     


    #12
    Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/30 12:11:21 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: wrench45us


    I think Brandon's earned the right to be as snippy as he wants to be

    and has shown amazing restraint
    (if we could get someone to just loosen him up some evening at trade show or a road tour, I'm sure the stories he could tell would curl your hair,
    but in the end it wouldn't make any difference, so we can let that pass)

    based on my experience,
    I'm sure the real story is as painful on the producer side as it is on the consumer side


    Hehe - thanks Jan.

    Oh and about that loosening up...do we do that with beer? It sounds nice.

    "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG

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    #13
    :10:
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/30 12:38:03 (permalink)
    Oh and about that loosening up...do we do that with beer?


    and strippers...

    I like the new site Brandon. looks nice!

      
    #14
    Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/30 12:40:45 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: :10:

    Oh and about that loosening up...do we do that with beer?


    and strippers...

    I like the new site Brandon. looks nice!


    Thanks much Sean! I'm trying to pull it kicking and screaming into the latter half of this decade. :-)

    (mmm...strippers)
    post edited by Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk] - 2009/06/30 12:52:29

    "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG

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    AT
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/30 13:58:23 (permalink)
    Brandon,

    site looks good.

    And yes, I'm sure Cakewalk didn't try to make P5 fail. It still is a great program - makes midi/loops as easy to use as Vegas does with audio. Hope y'all port more of the virtual ergonomics over to SONAR.

    Looking forward to more iterations.

    @

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #16
    Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/06/30 22:46:18 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: AT

    Brandon,

    site looks good.

    And yes, I'm sure Cakewalk didn't try to make P5 fail. It still is a great program - makes midi/loops as easy to use as Vegas does with audio. Hope y'all port more of the virtual ergonomics over to SONAR.

    Looking forward to more iterations.

    @


    Thanks Alan!

    And we'll certainly try to do just that whenever possible and when it makes sense to do so.

    "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG

    SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
    #17
    wrench45us
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/07/01 08:29:37 (permalink)

    meanwhile
    for the good of your career -- you should quit posting in the this thread
    cause the page is reading Marketing Failure -- Brandon Ryan

    that's why I've stepped in. I have no problem accepting that title.


     


    #18
    mumpcake
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/07/01 16:27:19 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: xylyx


    ORIGINAL: muso_price

    The trouble is most of the products like Kinetic, Project 5 and Sequel are only there to serve as an introduction to the company. The company are hoping that once you buy they're cheaper offerings you end up buying their flagship DAW.


    At least Steinberg had the good sense to include the import of Sequel files into Cubase...



    Cakewalk did have the good sense at least to allow Kinetic to export to P5. I started out a Sonar user who picked up Kinetic on a lark. To move my projects to Sonar would have been a pain because I would have needed to export the patterns individually and then import them individually into sonar and try to remember which patterns went where.
    #19
    b rock
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/07/01 17:52:31 (permalink)
    that's why I've stepped in. I have no problem accepting that title.
    I can't let you do that, Mr. Wrench. I'm going to fall on the Marketing Failure sword myself.
    After all, you make songs that people listen to, and buy. Now me, I spent an inordinate amount of time on things that no one uses.

    Speaking of marketing, and failures, get in touch with me (or Chad) ... if & when you get the chance, Brandon.
    I've got something I'd like to send your way. Unfortunately, it's not a stripper.
    #20
    AT
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/07/01 19:59:30 (permalink)
    Tom,

    your not selling the Key West Hwy again, or you?

    @

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #21
    syrath
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/07/03 17:11:52 (permalink)
    Ive gotta take some of the blame.
    #22
    a.cakewalk2@uio9.org
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/07/15 19:51:42 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]


    ORIGINAL: a.cakewalk2@uio9.org

    I'm sure I'm not the first to make this observation, but it is amazing that Cakewalk could fail with such a useful and innovative product as P5. The failure, imho, is entirely on the business and marketing end. I remember once a couple years ago picking up the P5 box in Best Buy and thinking, "wow, the text here is all marketing gibberish. Someone reading this would have no idea what makes P5 unique, how it is differentiated from other products, what type of work it excels at, or even what it is!" Similarly with the website. It was all garbage. Cakewalk could easily have made P5 into the lead product in the market for people who want to compose music without playing musical instruments, if they could have communicated that (not a hard task). And by compose, I don't mean drag and drop samples. And it was cheap too! Every high school music student in the world could have used P5 to study basic composition. What a sad failure and waste of all that effort for lack of a little intelligence...

    Cheers,
    A


    Not to sound snippy, but I'll just say that it is quite clear you don't actually work at Cakewalk and don't know all the details. It's much more complicated than that and that's simply all I can say. We're all really not that stupid I assure you. "A lack of a little intelligence" is most certainly not the problem.


    Don't get me wrong, Project 5 certainly was an excellent product. As someone with over 20 years software development experience and as a former Principal Engineer at a large software company, I can honest say that I was quite impressed by it. But I still maintain that the marketing was absurd. (Also, the documentation was horrendous.) Consider this material for another Cakewalk product:

    Make your creative dreams a reality and achieve polished, professional recordings from your home computer with Music Creator 5—no previous recording experience required! Music Creator 5 guides you through initial set-up, making it easy for you to plug in your instrument or microphone and immediately start recording. Get professional sounding results using Music Creator’s powerful tools, instruments, and effects. Creating music on your PC has never been this easy, fun, or affordable—all from Cakewalk, makers of the #1 selling music software in the world.

    Huh? After reading this I have no idea what Music Creator is. And I already know a fair amount about computers & music! But I do know that it guides me through initial setup and then makes my dreams a reality :) Sorry if this sounds snippy, but it is very frustrating...
    #23
    nightriderXL
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    RE: Marketing Failure 2009/07/15 22:06:53 (permalink)

    :

    Oh and about that loosening up...do we do that with beer?

    and strippers


    Hey what track can I catch that one on , My playback might be stuck in the looping mode !


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