Vocal recording and monitoring

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syntheticpop
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2009/07/26 12:00:56 (permalink)

Vocal recording and monitoring

ok, what's better?  to first record the vocals (no music) or is it better to record vocals when you have music you can listen to through the monitors.

also when you record your vocals, do you record just parts at a time like say a verse then later the chorus?  or should a singer wait until there's an entire piece of music and sing straight for 4-5 minutes.

since i'm on the subject of recording vocals, what are monitors used for? are they used to playback the music so you can listen or are they also used to play the music while you are recording your vocals?  if its just listening, can't i just use my ipod or a stereo? 
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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Vocal recording and monitoring 2009/07/26 12:39:38 (permalink)
    Referring to my advice on combining lyrics and melody, I'm bound to say: The only way to do this is to record lots of vocals without instrumentals and instrumentals without vocals, then play them back all at the same time and muting the ones that don't match.
     
    The monitors are used to make your neighbor nervous.
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    Legion
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    Re:Vocal recording and monitoring 2009/07/26 12:53:20 (permalink)
    AFAIK it's usually a lot harder to record acapella. It might be in the wrong key and all as well as you won't get the push from the music. I always record to music and let the artist I work with do the same but I do most of the mixing after all recording is done.

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    syntheticpop
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    Re:Vocal recording and monitoring 2009/07/26 13:44:32 (permalink)
    Legion, so its sounding like I should have music first before i record some of the vocals to lyrics I've already written.  That means using P5 or Sonar to get some inspiration for music. 

    btw Kalle, i've been on then off... for some time and haven't really got into making music yet.  Glad I didn't go with Music Creator - although I'm sure that's a great program for beginners.   i got Project 5 two years a go and got it installed once then had issues with my computer's motherboard going bad, had to go through the warranty process and get it replaced.  once it was replaced there were other hardware issues that creeped up and i had to get an entire new computer since the warranty ran out.  now that i got my new computer which is over a year old now, it probably won't be able to handle Sonar PE so I'm looking to upgrade.  I've been working two jobs since I've been back from service and has taken most of my time.  i've recently began to frequent this forum to get back on track with my desire to make music.  i know some of my questions make me look stupid or that i'm joking but they are really my questions since i'm just a beginner and don't know much about music and recording. 
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    bitflipper
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    Re:Vocal recording and monitoring 2009/07/26 14:16:21 (permalink)
    ok, what's better? to first record the vocals (no music) or is it better to record vocals when you have music you can listen to through the monitors.


    Record a click track first, so that you don't have to guess about timing.

    Next, record a guide track. This will be a simple (be sure to keep it simple) piano or guitar PLUS vocal, recorded simultaneously while playing along with the click track. Record them as two separate tracks, so that you can selectively mute one or the other as you track other parts.

    The guide track provides the framework for the song, so you know where each verse, chorus, bridge, turnaround and instrumental break will go. Now you have a scratch vocal to play along with as you lay down the basic rhythm tracks.

    I prefer to record ALL backing instruments first, although I often mute some of them while tracking vocals, then do vocals, and lead instruments last.  By deferring lead instruments until after the vocals, you have the opportunity to adapt the instrumental lead to complement the vocal.


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    gamblerschoice
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    Re:Vocal recording and monitoring 2009/07/26 14:17:56 (permalink)
    For recording vocals with some music in the background to keep you in key and in time with the music, you should monitor the music tracks with headphones. Monitoring through the desktop speakers or other open speakers will allow the music to bleed over into the vocal tracks, and limit the editing of those vocals in the future. You want the vocals clean and by themselves, so use headphones that are closed back type, no sound should bleed through to the outside where it can be picked up by the mic.
    If you have more questions, come on back. Also, the music creator forum is set up mainly for m/c users, but the people who respond to questions there are more accustomed to newbie type questions, and more willing to answer without throwing in comments about your experience levels, or lack thereof. Drop in there and ask the same question, you'll get responses that are of more use to you.

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    michaelhanson
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    Re:Vocal recording and monitoring 2009/07/26 19:52:02 (permalink)
    Record a click track first, so that you don't have to guess about timing.

    Next, record a guide track. This will be a simple (be sure to keep it simple) piano or guitar PLUS vocal, recorded simultaneously while playing along with the click track. Record them as two separate tracks, so that you can selectively mute one or the other as you track other parts.

    The guide track provides the framework for the song, so you know where each verse, chorus, bridge, turnaround and instrumental break will go. Now you have a scratch vocal to play along with as you lay down the basic rhythm tracks.

    I prefer to record ALL backing instruments first, although I often mute some of them while tracking vocals, then do vocals, and lead instruments last.  By deferring lead instruments until after the vocals, you have the opportunity to adapt the instrumental lead to complement the vocal.
    Bitflipper

     
    This is exactly the way that I record songs as well.  Instead of a click though, I will often find a drum loop that is really close to what my final drum track will sound like and use that as my click guide.  Also, never take your scratch vocal lightly, on more than one occasion, it has ended up being my favorite vocal take, even after trying over and over to better that first take.
     

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    syntheticpop
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    Re:Vocal recording and monitoring 2009/07/26 21:07:55 (permalink)
    bitflipper, thanks for the equation.  can't get the solution without having the right equation.  so a click track is that recording the metronome?  should the rhythm track be recorded before the lead?  i will try to do the vocals first, a long with some piano and guitar then apply a lead after the vocals.  thanks for the suggestions.   originally, i was thinking about recording my vocals from lyrics i've written and then try to produce music through P5 or Sonar to those vocals.  But from the sound of things, having the music first is the backbone to a song.  I can see how a singer would perform better when there is music being heard (monitored) while singing.   Sometimes I can get into a groove by playing a favorite CD and singing a long.  Legion you mentioned a singer singing out of key, does that mean the music needs to be played in the right key to match what you're trying to sing?  is this why vocalist sometimes change their pitch?  for monitoring, i have in the ear type headphones that came with my iPod.  will those do or do I need something like the pro's use. 
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    bdickens
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    Re:Vocal recording and monitoring 2009/07/27 12:34:28 (permalink)
    I like to get the whole rest of the track more or less complete first.

    Byron Dickens
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    Kim Lajoie
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    Re:Vocal recording and monitoring 2009/07/28 03:48:13 (permalink)
    Something like this.

    -Kim.
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    michaelhanson
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    Re:Vocal recording and monitoring 2009/07/28 07:17:30 (permalink)
    Good stuff, Kim!

    Mike

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    Beagle
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    Re:Vocal recording and monitoring 2009/07/28 08:29:04 (permalink)
    bitflipper

    ok, what's better? to first record the vocals (no music) or is it better to record vocals when you have music you can listen to through the monitors.


    Record a click track first, so that you don't have to guess about timing.

    Next, record a guide track. This will be a simple (be sure to keep it simple) piano or guitar PLUS vocal, recorded simultaneously while playing along with the click track. Record them as two separate tracks, so that you can selectively mute one or the other as you track other parts.

    The guide track provides the framework for the song, so you know where each verse, chorus, bridge, turnaround and instrumental break will go. Now you have a scratch vocal to play along with as you lay down the basic rhythm tracks.

    I prefer to record ALL backing instruments first, although I often mute some of them while tracking vocals, then do vocals, and lead instruments last.  By deferring lead instruments until after the vocals, you have the opportunity to adapt the instrumental lead to complement the vocal.


    I prefer to record ALL backing instruments first, although I often mute some of them while tracking vocals, then do vocals, and lead instruments last. By deferring lead instruments until after the vocals, you have the opportunity to adapt the instrumental lead to complement the vocal.

     
    best way to do it in my opinion - BUT do what is best for your workflow.  use these suggestions as guidelines to figure out what works best for you.

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    glen55
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    Re:Vocal recording and monitoring 2009/07/28 15:28:04 (permalink)
    (1) Decide on the tempo of the project, then set up a click track or use the audio metronome in Sonar to get a solid beat.  This is a must before you do anything.
     
    Everything else here is just my version of the standard way I do things (which itself can vary based on the needs of the particular project), but I would say starting out with a beat is a must for everybody unless you're doing some kind of arhythmic music.
     
    (2) Then I set up a basic structure of verse/chorus/bridge/whatever with rhythm guitar or keyboard chords. 
     
    (3) Then I put down the basics of the drum track.  By basics I mean kick and hat, and if it's a rock song backbeat snare.
     
    (4) Then I do the vocals.
     
    These vocals are really just a guidepost.  Most likely I just wrote the lyrics and just came up with the melody, so I probably don't have a great feel for it and the vocals come out a bit mechanical more often than not.
     
    (5) Then I do whatever I'm planning on doing with the instruments.  Having that guidepost vox track is a great help because it provides a much more detailed structure than what I had been working from previously.  Vox tends to be the most important structural element, at least for my stuff.
     
    I am not a gifted instrumentalist - yet, I'm workin' on it - so this step is likely to take me at least several hours to get something passable.
     
    (6) Most likely I will add drum fill and other rhythmic ornamentation last.
     
    (7) Then I listen to the song - a lot.  I am very likely to replace bits here and there that don't work for whatever reason (for example, they might suck).  But what I am aiming to do for sure is a second, more inspired take on the vocals.
     
    (8) Eventually I will do that 2nd take on the vocals.  More likely than not, I will eventually do a 3rd take, although not necessarily if the 2nd is good enough.  Usually, though, listening to the song with the 2nd vocal enough is going to give me a few ideas for improving the vocals.
     
    In other words, coming up with the best vocal I can come up with is, for me, heavily dependent on being extremely familiar with the material.  So the answer to your question is pretty complex.  Essentially, I record vocals early and then re-do 'em late.  Of course, I'm not even taking background vocals into account, but I put them in a different category.  They don't require as much attention, IMO, as lead vox.
    post edited by glen55 - 2009/07/28 15:31:14

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