GTP4 Studio Instruments Question

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mtgonzalez
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2009/10/04 10:45:04 (permalink)

GTP4 Studio Instruments Question

I just loaded GTP4 yesterday and wanted to start playing with the Studio Instruments. Do I need to have a midi interface in order to hear these sounds or add them to a project. I'm not a midi guy, just learning about this stuff. And if so, what do you guys recommend for a first timer

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    SteveStrummerUK
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/04 17:38:46 (permalink)
     
    Hi there Mitch
     
    The easy answer is no, you don't need a MIDI interface to hear sound from Studio Instruments, neither do you need a MIDI interface or a hardware MIDI controller to input the data required to play them.
     
    However, if you do at some stage wish to record MIDI information into your project 'live', you will need both a controller and an interface, although most controllers can connect to your PC and be routed into Guitar Tracks Pro4 with an appropriate USB lead.
     
    The important thing for starters is to learn a little about what MIDI is, and more importantly, what it isn't.
     
    MIDI data contains no audio, but it does contain the information to 'instruct' a software synthesiser (often shortened to softsynth) what to play - for example which notes should be played in a piano softsynth, when they are played, the force with which they are played (velocity) and their duration; similar information could be used to play other instruments.
     
    Furthermore, MIDI data can be used to trigger the different parts of the kit in a drum softsynth.
     
    Other than using an outboard controller, there are a few ways of getting the MIDI information into your project.  The data can be entered using your mouse either in GT4's Piano Roll View (PRV) or using the Staff View, using musical notation. 
     
    The PRV opens in a window that contains the 'grid' into which the data can be entered and edited, as well as a keyboard which allows you to audition the sound each key is associated with - for example, if you're using a piano softsynth, using your mouse to press the middle C key in the PRV should play middle C in the softsynth.
     
    Incidentally, some softsynths (such as Studio Instruments Electric Piano and String Section) have their own keyboards which make it easier to audition the program and settings you want to use.
     
    Others, such as SI Drums and SI Bass Guitar have graphical interfaces that let you audition the sounds - left click on a drum and you'll hear it play for example.
     
    For softsynths that don't have such a keyboard or interface, you'll need to use the PRV.
     
    Another way is to import MIDI data into your project - the most popular application for this is probably in drum softsynth programs, where pre-recorded drum samples are dragged directly into a project to form the basis of a drum track.
     
    The beauty of all these methods (including recording live with a controller) is that the MIDI information is completely editable at any stage - 'notes' can be individually altered for pitch/duration etc or deleted, or more notes can be added.
     
    When you insert one of the Studio Instruments into a blank project, GT4 should 'wire it up' so the output audio from the softsynth goes to your soundcard, so you should be able to hear it when you trigger a sound.
     
    Here's a couple of quick examples to get you going, open GT4 and select 'blank' for the project type.
     
     

     
     
    SI Strings using the Piano Roll View
     
    From the menu bar, select Insert > Soft Synths > Studio Instruments > SI String Section
     
    This screen will open, check the same boxes as shown:
     
     
     
     
     
     
    The SI Strings GUI should now be open - left click on the keyboard at the bottom and you should hear some sound.  Left click in the Load Program field to audition other settings.
     
    To input MIDI information in the PRV, first minimise or close the Synth Rack and the SI Strings interfaces (you can re-open a softsynth GUI anytime from View > Synth Rack and clicking on the icon to the left of the synth's name). Now click on the PRV button:
     
     
     
     
    Just to make certain everything's working OK Mitch, click on the PRV Draw Tool and then use the left mouse button to click in the grid in a few places - you should hear the sound as the data is entered:
     

     
     
     
    Finally, return to the Track View - you should see the MIDI information you just entered; press the Play button and the music you just made should play back!  Importantly, as MIDI is just data and the sound is coming from the SI Strings softsynth, try changing the project tempo around a bit - the notes will play faster or slower but they will still play at the correct pitch, i.e the pitch you entered in the PRV.
     
     

     
     
    SI Drums using pre-recorded samples
     
    From the menu bar, select Insert > Soft Synths > Studio Instruments > SI Drum Kit, check the same options as above and the Drum GUI will open.
     
    You should be able to hear the drums by left clicking on them.
     
    To audition SI Drum's different kits, click in the PRG field and select from the drop-down list.
     
    To audition the 'loops' and sequences first expand one of the five genres and then double-click (or press Play on the transport) on one of the patterns; it should play - to hear it over and over press the Loop On button on the transport.
     
    For example, choose the Full Throttle kit and then expand the Rock genre and select BEAT THIS
     
    Now for the tricky bit!  To transfer this pattern into your project, hold down the left mouse button over the BEAT THIS name and drag to the left edge of the MIDI track (the bottom one of the three) of the SI Drum Kit track:
     

     
     
     
    It should now play back the same as in the Strings example above.
     
    To start putting together a drum track, you can use different sequences and patterns and drag them to wherever you want in the project Mitch - plus all this information is still completely editable in the PRV.
     
    To quickly copy inserted patterns across your project (say you have a pattern you want to play through a whole verse) right click in the clip and select Groove Clip Looping.  Hover the mouse pointer over the right edge of the pattern clip until the pointer changes to an arrow icon; now hold down the left mouse button and drag the clip across your project - the pattern will be repeatedly copied until you stop.
     

     
    Finally, you'll want to be able to treat your MIDI tracks with VST effects and processors in the same way you do with audio recordings, as well as being able to route the output through any busses and sends.
     
    To do this, you can Freeze the synth, this bounces the synth's output to audio which can be processed in exactly the same way as any other audio.  The big benefit here, as opposed to recorded audio, is that you Unfreeze/Thaw the synth at any time and go back and edit the MIDI data again, as the freeze process doesn't delete the MIDI information!
     
    To freeze and unfreeze a softsynth, either click on the snowflake icon on the synth in the Track View or on the Synth Rack, or select the track and select Track > Freeze:
     

     
     
     
    Right, I'll leave it there Mitch - let us know how you get on, and if you need any more info
     
     
    Steve
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    post edited by SteveStrummerUK - 2009/10/04 17:44:02

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    mtgonzalez
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/04 19:50:45 (permalink)
    Thanks for the details Steve, my wife is heading out the door to have some coffee with friends, which gives me plenty of time to play with this Studio Instrument app. Hopefully I'll have the begginings of a song for her when she gets back.
     
    Thanks again

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    mtgonzalez
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/05 19:54:45 (permalink)
    Ok, I got everything up and running and was able to record a song with Drums, Bass, Keyboards and Strings. I really like the simplicity of it all, especially the drum loops. Previously I was using a Roland DR-880 drum machine for all my percussive needs.

    Any recommendations as far as getting more drum loops. I saw the Groove Monkey loop packages on Cakewalk store site for $29 a piece. Anyone have any luck with those or any other drum loop solutions?

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    Doc_Hollingsworth
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/06 20:49:41 (permalink)
    mtgonzalez


    Ok, I got everything up and running and was able to record a song with Drums, Bass, Keyboards and Strings. I really like the simplicity of it all, especially the drum loops. Previously I was using a Roland DR-880 drum machine for all my percussive needs.

    Any recommendations as far as getting more drum loops. I saw the Groove Monkey loop packages on Cakewalk store site for $29 a piece. Anyone have any luck with those or any other drum loop solutions?


    Groove Monkey are actually MIDI drum clips. Beta Monkey offers drum loops that work as audio loops in a project. But you might also want to check into Toontrack's EZDrummer. It will allow you to add kits for specific styles and MIDI clips. And when combined with EZPlayer Pro, it will enable you to build MIDI clips or full performances that sound exactly the way you want them to through combining parts of existing clips.

    I use it's big brother Superior Drummer 2.2 using this approach and our drummer MIDI's in his live performance using a V-Drum kit as well. The last allows us to apply parts of various kits to achieve the sound we are looking for.

    You can also add clips at a reasonable cost using the Toontrack Monster MIDI packs or MIDI packs from GrooveMonkey as noted.

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    mtgonzalez
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/13 18:49:58 (permalink)
    Thanks for the info Doc, still kinda confused. So can MIDI drum clips import into Studio Instrument drums and then be tweaked using the applications tone interface (reverb, comp, L & R mix options)

    I went to Beta Monkey's website, cool stuff, so those are drum loops. Same question, can I import the drum loops into Studio Instrument drums and then tweak them by using the applications tone interface (reverb, comp, L & R mix options) or are these just loops that can not interface with the SI Drums application

    Either way my end result is that I want to use Studio Instrument Drums but have more MIDI drum clips or Loops so that I can use the application to adjust tone interface (reverb, comp, L & R mix options) as I please. Sorry to ask such simple questions, still trying to wrap my head around the world of midi.

    As far as getting EZDrummer or Superior Drummer 2.2, I'm trying to keep my cost down. So far recording music is a hobby and not a profession, so I can't justify spending more $ then need be. Tis the reason I was stoked when I found out that GTP4 offered a drum solution

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    dwardzala
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/14 08:59:12 (permalink)
    One thing to be aware of - you will need to convert the SI tracks which have midi data in them into audio tracks using the "Freeze Synth" button (looks like a snowflake) - Steve gave some intructions above (last picture).  This will make the track view look like a normal guitar or vocal track as opposed to the little dots and dashes of a midi track.  Then you will be able to apply effects (reverb, eq, compression, etc) on it.  Also, it has the added benefit of reducing CPU comsumption as well.

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    Doc_Hollingsworth
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/14 11:06:39 (permalink)
    mtgonzalez


    Thanks for the info Doc, still kinda confused. So can MIDI drum clips import into Studio Instrument drums and then be tweaked using the applications tone interface (reverb, comp, L & R mix options)

    I went to Beta Monkey's website, cool stuff, so those are drum loops. Same question, can I import the drum loops into Studio Instrument drums and then tweak them by using the applications tone interface (reverb, comp, L & R mix options) or are these just loops that can not interface with the SI Drums application

    Either way my end result is that I want to use Studio Instrument Drums but have more MIDI drum clips or Loops so that I can use the application to adjust tone interface (reverb, comp, L & R mix options) as I please. Sorry to ask such simple questions, still trying to wrap my head around the world of midi.

    As far as getting EZDrummer or Superior Drummer 2.2, I'm trying to keep my cost down. So far recording music is a hobby and not a profession, so I can't justify spending more $ then need be. Tis the reason I was stoked when I found out that GTP4 offered a drum solution


    Yes you can import MIDI clips into the instrument. So essentially you can pull in MIDI clips from any source as long as you know where they are located and the instrument can browse to the source of the MIDI data. You can then use the tools as mentioned to modify tone, timbre etc.

    A note about MIDI tracks. And I am going on information based upon Sonar 8 Producer, so this may have no relevance. When you add a MIDI instrument to a project it will provide an option to add it as a combined audio and MIDI track in one consolidated view, this is called an instrument track. alternatively when you add the instrument it gives you the option to deselect the instrument check box sperating out the midi data and audio data into two sperate tracks.

    With the instrument track deselected when you insert the soft synth and getting the MIDI data seperate from the audio data you should be able to insert audio FX in the audio track and apply it with real time effect. Once you print ("freeze") the synth your track will playback with all effects enabled.

    Regarding Audio Loops as source for drums. You can drop these directly onto an audio track within GTP4. They can not be used with SI. They are an audio recording saved in ACID wav format which adds additional information regarding beats per minute, time signature and musical key which allows you to manipulate the loop. You can then EQ, add reverb, and other tone shaping tools in your arsenal as desired.

    I understand what you are saying about minimizing costs and using GTP4 as an all in one package.

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    mtgonzalez
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/14 15:05:03 (permalink)
    Thanks Doc, that clears things up. I'll be picking up some drum MIDI clips this weekend. Not sure yet if i'm going to buy Toontrack Monster MIDI packs or MIDI packs from GrooveMonkey. I notice that the Toontrack Monster MIDI pack 1,2, and 3 have a disclaimer at the bottom of the Overview that says "Works with EZdrummer®, Superior Drummer® or any GM compatible drum kit"  Is that a marketing trick to get you to buy thier drum track software? What's GM stand for?

    Dave, thanks for that reminder

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    Doc_Hollingsworth
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/22 15:06:31 (permalink)
    GM stands for General MIDI. They will work with about 90% of the drum samplers and synths.

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    mtgonzalez
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/27 21:33:10 (permalink)
    Dude I think I screwd things up. I bought Toontrack Monster MIDI pack. Couldn't figure out how to load the midi drums clips on to GTP4 so I bought EZplayer Pro from Toontrack to use as a midi organizer. That took for every and a day to register so that it would work. I finally registered it and then got a email from thier support dept that EZPlayer Pro hasn't been tested on GTP because it never had VSTi capablity. But now that GTP4 has VSTi capabilty it might work or not. Now my SI drums don't work at all. They play really slow and destored. Same goes for the midi drum clips I got thru Toontrrack. What can I do to fix this. HELP!!!! so bummed right now

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    Doc_Hollingsworth
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/27 23:04:30 (permalink)
    MT all is not lost.

    There is a fix for the problem. First of all check the tempo settings in your project. Make sure it is at something reasoable for what you are working on.

    The EZPlayer pro should work just fine. It is VSTi 2 compatible so you're good there. The playing slowly. Where is this occurring in GTP4, SI or through EZplayer Pro? If the later check your tempo settings to see if it is locked to the project tempo.

    Next. As for where the MIDI files are located. You need to check where SI put's it's MIDI files or if it has look up capability. I don't know as I don't have the product. But if it has file source mapping you can just select the files directly from SI. If not then you may have to move the MIDI files to a specific location where SI can find them.

    Let me know if this helps to point you in the right direction.

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    #12
    mtgonzalez
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/28 15:03:10 (permalink)
    1) The project tempo settings are set to 120

    2) It's playing slow on GTP4 and SI. I'm not getting any sound from EZplayer Pro. I'll check the tempo seetings on EZplayer to make sure it's looked to the project tempo (i'll have to read up on how to do that) - side note: Toontracks response was that GTP4 is not VSTi compatible, which is incorrect.

    3) I'll read up on file source mapping, but if it's just moving files that should be a piece of cake


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    mtgonzalez
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/28 20:23:25 (permalink)
    I think this is a audio config issue. My SI drums were working fine before I stared tweeking with the audio config, now my SI drums sound like they're flanged and tinny. I think if i figure out what I did to jack up my audio config i might be back in business. This flanged/tinny problem is happining even without EZplayer Pro open. I'm able to grab Toontrack midi files and dump them into my SI drums and hear the play back, they just sound really bad. Also when I play back non-VST tracks or projects that only contain wave files, i'm getting the same flanged tiny sound. SO THIS IS FOR SURE A AUDIO CONFIG ISSUE

    Anyone have a basic audio config templete I can refer to. I'm using my Line6 UX2 as a sound card

    My GTP4 audio settings
    Driver Mode: MME (32bit)
    Playback Device: Line 6 UX2
    Recording Device: Line 6 UX2
    Mixing Latency: 10.0 msec

    Playback and Record Settings
    Share Drivers With Other Programs (check)
    Use Multi processing Engine (not check)
    Audio Bit Depth: 16

    Sample Rate: 44100

    Lauched Audio Profiler: everything checked back OK

    My Laptop Audio Settings
    Sound Playback Default Device: IDT Audio
    Sound Recording Default Device: IDT Audio
    Midi Music Playback Default Device: Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth


    My EZplayer is sync to the project tempo, I tested it by changing the tempo on the project and it automaticly adjusted to the EZplayer tempo

    Still need to read up on file source mapping

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    mtgonzalez
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    Re:GTP4 Studio Instruments Question 2009/10/29 16:24:23 (permalink)
    FYI
    Just got this email from Rogue Marechal - head of support at Toontracks

    I stand corrected. Yes, we will eventually add it to the list of compatible applications, after test. But it is unlikely to happen this side of the new year (however far that is currently).

    ... there is hope though, especially since I doubt none of the 75% Cakewalk employees are Toontrack users ;-)

    _____________________________

    Best Regards, RM


    THERE IS HOPE

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