kev11111111111111
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Studying scores
Hi ! I've just bought a score to help me hopefully improve my compositions.I was wondering how other people go about studying scores on the forum ? The score I bought was Beethoven's Fifth Symphony.The first thing that struck me was the amount of doubles he was using.For example in the opening (da da da dahhhhhhhhh !!!) he's got violin 1 + 2 in unison,viola copying the violins one octave down,and then cellos and basses copying the same part one octave below the violas. What a big sound ! I was really pleased when I realised what he was doing here - this is a voicing I'm going to use in my next piece. Hopefully they'll be more where that came from as I get deeper into the score !!! So my question is what kind of things do you look for in a score ? Does it help you to write better music ? Would you copy out a score ? Would you lift a passage and claim it as your own ?  Be interested to know your opinions on this !!! Thanks Kev
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feedback50
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/18 12:29:43
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The Garritan web site has the entire Rimsky-Korsakov text on orchestration on line with some midi examples of voicings. It includes partial animated score listings, that animate while the examples play. All free. Good info on string rankings, impacts of combined voicings, relative section volumes, bracketing strings around reeds, etc. Probably not terribly current in terms of some twentieth century techniques, but a really good starting place. I haven't read or written actual scores since college (where I majored in staying out of the Army). The Garritan site also has some tutorials on voicing for string samplers. I recommend a look at how they combine section and solo voicings with variations in timbre, intonation and volume using cc patterns. It can be tedious, but it makes for very convincing sequences if you make the effort to master the techniques.
RC
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Philip
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/18 12:43:56
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Thanks for sharing those melodic pearls.
The octave bigness makes sense when up to 2 lower octaves have parallel notes.
Methinks 2 higher octaves would sound intimidating, disturbing, and/or brash.
Myself (like Kev alluded to); I'm currently concerned with grooves, drums and bass (not the genre), and staying awake while driving.
Music theory for me is all about groove and score formulas, to help mainstream and/or enrich songs to higher levels.
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kev11111111111111
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/18 13:41:25
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feedback50
The Garritan web site has the entire Rimsky-Korsakov text on orchestration on line with some midi examples of voicings. It includes partial animated score listings, that animate while the examples play. All free. Good info on string rankings, impacts of combined voicings, relative section volumes, bracketing strings around reeds, etc. Probably not terribly current in terms of some twentieth century techniques, but a really good starting place. I haven't read or written actual scores since college (where I majored in staying out of the Army). The Garritan site also has some tutorials on voicing for string samplers. I recommend a look at how they combine section and solo voicings with variations in timbre, intonation and volume using cc patterns. It can be tedious, but it makes for very convincing sequences if you make the effort to master the techniques.
RC
Garritan site looks great.I'll definately have a look at how they are doing sequencing because this is one area I struggle in. I think I've seen the orchestra tutorials before - they look pretty intense ! I will have a go at them at some point as this would definately be a good support for studying scores.Many thanks ! Kev
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kev11111111111111
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/18 14:15:34
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Philip
Thanks for sharing those melodic pearls.
The octave bigness makes sense when up to 2 lower octaves have parallel notes.
Methinks 2 higher octaves would sound intimidating, disturbing, and/or brash.
Myself (like Kev alluded to); I'm currently concerned with grooves, drums and bass (not the genre), and staying awake while driving.
Music theory for me is all about groove and score formulas, to help mainstream and/or enrich songs to higher levels.
Hi ! How's it going ? Yep definately using octaves is one way to ensure a big sound ! I think this can be applied to pretty much any genre....it's a real beauty of a technique ! I've also used it in some rock stuff I've done with the bass guitar and guitar in octaves - super cool ! I never used to listen to much classical stuff - but the more I do the more I realise thats there's just so much you can learn from these composers. Passing the melody from one instrument to another is another golden technique.And again it can be done in any genre - it doesn't have to be classical ! Agreed,there's some pure magic out there ! Kev
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Mamabear
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/18 21:11:21
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Ron F. recommended a couple books to me (besides the Garritan website which I've looked over a bit.)
The Technique of Orchestration by Kent Wheeler Kennan and
The Norton Scores, edited by Roger Kamien.
Both are very cheap on eBay.
My problem with the latter book is not having the CD's of the particular pieces in the book. I'm sure they're available--I just don't have them. What I would LOVE to get my hands on is the score for the soundtrack to Man From Snowy River. I love that music, and to see how it's written would be a great help, I'm sure.
But I agree...even a cursory look at the Garritan site is a great education.
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gamblerschoice
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 00:29:29
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Steelers 27, Browns 17, only score I caught today....
Thanks for the lead to the garritan site, on my way to check it out now.
Later
Albert
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kev11111111111111
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 03:56:34
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Mamabear
Ron F. recommended a couple books to me (besides the Garritan website which I've looked over a bit.)
The Technique of Orchestration by Kent Wheeler Kennan and
The Norton Scores, edited by Roger Kamien.
Both are very cheap on eBay.
My problem with the latter book is not having the CD's of the particular pieces in the book. I'm sure they're available--I just don't have them. What I would LOVE to get my hands on is the score for the soundtrack to Man From Snowy River. I love that music, and to see how it's written would be a great help, I'm sure.
But I agree...even a cursory look at the Garritan site is a great education.
Hi ! Thanks for those titles.I'll have to have a look ! Theres a couple of sites where you can stream (right word ??) music for free.Like Deezer - loads of stuff on there,99 % of the time you can find what you're looking for. I've not seen the film you mentioned,but yep this is the concept I'm after exploring - finding some music you love and using it as a springboard to develope technique.If you ever do buy your score try playing and recording the parts individually.....putting the notes in with your mouse (quantising) will likely put you of your piece for life - as I found out yesterday !!! Thanks Kev
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kev11111111111111
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 03:57:35
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gamblerschoice
Steelers 27, Browns 17, only score I caught today....
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Mamabear
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 08:05:04
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YOU HAVEN'T SEEN MAN FROM SNOWY RIVER????!!!!!
Now THAT'S unbelievable! It's only one of the best movies ever made!!!
OK, all right...I'll calm down. It was made in the early 80's and I suppose you're too young to remember that time. But...Bruce Rowland did win honors for the score. It's really some of the most beautiful music ever written IMO. And set against the background of the Australian Outback mountains, plus and great story plus....well, just watch it. If you don't like it, don't blame me. :-)
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Spaceduck
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 08:50:08
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the duck hasn't seen Man From Snowy River either 
or mr. hollands opus
(prepares for the wrath of the bear)
I've been looking at the score for Beethoven's 7th, 2nd Movement ...talk about UNISON. In the video check out 6:30 to 7:00. He sets us up with intricate point/counterpoint/arpeggios, and then builds up to the big climax: unison city! It's like every player on the stage is hitting the same notes & blasting the roof off the place. Beethoven was the master of that (5th, 7th, 9th symphonies)
even if he did have lousy handwriting 
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Johannes H
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 09:47:55
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Mamabear
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 10:25:05
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Duck--that's your loss, man. I should say 'The Man' could be considered a love story...but the scenery is phenomenal, the horsemanship can be beat, the story is interesting, the humor is great. AND, the score alone is worth every minute. But don't watch it for my sake. :-) Mr. Holland's Opus--you might like it for the music and culture it showcases throughout several decades. :-)
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geeare1
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 11:22:49
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I've been studying Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings. Since it only deals with strings it seemed like a good place to start. Plus it's an incredible piece of music.
As with the Beethoven piece many of the parts are doubled and even when they're not the voiceings are often very big and spread apart.
Also a very interesting use of time signatures. Really cool.
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kev11111111111111
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 11:55:54
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Mamabear
YOU HAVEN'T SEEN MAN FROM SNOWY RIVER????!!!!!
Now THAT'S unbelievable! It's only one of the best movies ever made!!!
OK, all right...I'll calm down. It was made in the early 80's and I suppose you're too young to remember that time. But...Bruce Rowland did win honors for the score. It's really some of the most beautiful music ever written IMO. And set against the background of the Australian Outback mountains, plus and great story plus....well, just watch it. If you don't like it, don't blame me. :-)
I get the feeling i'll have to watch this film soon  We've got some sort of film package with our phone / internet so I'll do a search for it soon....thanx for the pointer ! Kev
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Mamabear
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 11:57:20
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If you don't like it, I'll eat my hat. Or something like that. :-)
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Spaceduck
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 11:59:35
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Mamabear
I should say 'The Man' could be considered a love story...but the scenery is phenomenal, the horsemanship can be beat, the story is interesting, the humor is great. AND, the score alone is worth every minute.
The last sentence is good enough for me; I'll put it on my list (but keep your hat lightly basted in marjoram sauce just in case ). Even if a film is so-so (or outright lousy), a good score can make it tops in my book (example: "Zardoz", a cheesy scifi flick which has Beethoven peppered throughout. Winner!). geeare, that Adagio for Strings is incredible I agree... but for some reason I can't listen to it without picturing Willem Dafoe running through the jungle... Is it obvious where my entire classical music education came from? 
post edited by Spaceduck - 2009/10/19 12:00:40
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kev11111111111111
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Mamabear
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 12:04:01
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I'll have to check those out, too, Duck. Thank you (btw...do you have another name...or is S. Duck or something similar the preferred?) :-) I imagine Man From Snowy River didn't get as popular here since it's an Australian film and I believe Bruce Rowland is Australian. But it really was quite popular in the 80's. Which I can't believe was a couple decades ago.
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kev11111111111111
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 12:05:58
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Johannes H
This may be of interest. http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/variations/scores/symphonic.html
Best, JH
That link brought a smile to my face.Brilliant ! Thank you !!!! Edit I'll hopefully save on some dosh (money) in the future.Thanks again. Kev
post edited by kev11111111111111 - 2009/10/19 12:08:48
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Spaceduck
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 13:34:12
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Mamabear
I'll have to check those out, too, Duck. Thank you (btw...do you have another name...or is S. Duck or something similar the preferred?) :-)
Hahaha.... Duck, Ducky, Sir Duck of OrangeSauce... it's all fine with me. I do have a real name somewhere. But since I'm paranoid of cyberstalkers (meaning: ex-girlfriend  ) I've never mentioned it online! By the way, do you mind me calling you 'Mabs', 'Mabear', 'Mabe', 'Bear' etc? I feel rude calling people by their real name if I don't go by mine. The internet makes for some tricky social conundrums! kev11111111111111
Johannes H
This may be of interest. http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/variations/scores/symphonic.html
Best, JH
That link brought a smile to my face.Brilliant ! Thank you !!!! Edit I'll hopefully save on some dosh (money) in the future.Thanks again.
Kev
No doubt! I feel like a dope for dishing out all my dosh. Although now I have no excuse for not studying more music...
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Mamabear
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 13:53:40
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Ok, then, Duck it is. Or some form thereof. I can handle that. :-)
I actually prefer Janet, although I'm getting used to all forms of mamabear. This is the only place in the world I'm known as that and now I wonder why I chose that. lol.
But like they say...just don't call me late for supper. :-)
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drewfx1
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/19 14:17:30
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jsaras
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/20 10:34:24
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If you ever get the opportunity to go to one of Scott Smalley's weekend "Hollywood Orchestration" seminars, I would highly recommend it. As far as learning things from scores, I would certainly steal orchestral instrument combos. Often times, when a director or producer is really in love with a temp score they are really responding to the orchestral color they are hearing. If you can get something into the same ball park texturally it's much more likely your cue will get approved. I wouldn't steal a passage of Beethoven though. However, if you want to learn how to take any passage of music apart and how to develop it to the n-th degree in unique and original ways I'd highly suggest studying the Equal Interval System, a.k.a EIS ( www.equalinterval.com). I've written about some of the details of EIS in the forum in the past.
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Mamabear
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Re:Studying scores
2009/10/20 21:15:59
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Great stuff here guys. Thanks! I'm listening to Beethoven's 7th, 2nd movement now...and wondering where I've heard the first part of it. I'm pretty sure it's in Mr. Holland's Opus. See, I told you that movie had good music.
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