record a VSTi live instead of freeze track?

I know I read a long thread on this ages ago - but I couldn't find it again - so please forgive me for posting this question again.
 
Is it still the case - with Sonar 8.5 - that I can't just send the output of a VSTi to the input of an audio track and record it while I'm playing live?   Freezing doesn't capture the performance of instruments that have elements of randomness (sample and hold or filters being opened by LFOs that aren't synced to the tempo etc) - when I'm using this sort of VSTi, I play it according to how the sound evolves - so just recording the MIDI track won't capture the performance.  
 
Hard to believe that as sophistocated as Sonar is - I still have to get out some audio cables and physically connect outputs to inputs so I can record a softsynth in real time. 
 
I'm hoping the feature is there, somewhere, and I'm just not seeing it - but I'm afraid that Im gonna find out this is another one of those things (like vari-speed) that the designers just don't understand why anyone would want it (and don't really "get it" how it's not the same thing as pitch shift in the case of varispeed or freeze track in the case of recording a soft synth).
 
Thanks in advance -- hope I'm wrong and someone will tell me how, inside sonar, to route the softsynth to the input of an audio track and enable record.
 

 - Edit - Removed - Irrelavent drivel

workaround for those who don't have an interface with a mixer applet that can do a digital loopback:
 
Set up to bounce the instrument track (or MIDI and synth audio track) to another track, and do a non-fast, audible bounce with live input enabled. The trick is you have to have another MIDI or audio track that plays long enough to keep the real-time bounce going while you record. If necessary, you can just record a dummy audio track to perform this function.
 
 

Brundefly's method works.

Susan G

Brundefly's method works.

Without an existing track to "Bounce"? How would that work?

-Susan

A new track is made when play stops with the audio in it. However Brundlefly has the secret with the "dummy" track giving a length for the bounce. Without it you can't do this. If you are adding this to a song then the dummy track wont be needed.

I had tried it to see if it really worked, it did. I don't know how to explain other then what has already been said. I'll try again.

You have a synth inserted via the synth rack. You select audio and MIDI  track/s in the dialog. You then add a recorded dummy track for the length you want the synth to play. You goto the edit menu and select bounce to track with the synth audio track selected. It will be an option if the dummy track is there. A bounce dialog pops up. Deselect fast bounce. Select live input. As soon as you do that it will start recording. It will end at the end of the dummy track.

Susan G


Hi John-

You lost me! I still don't see how you can record live to a softsynth (VSTi) track.

There has to be something recorded before you can bounce it.

-Susan

Sure you can, Susan. Insert the soft synth as an effect on an audio track and route a MIDI track to it. Then, arm the audio track and go. I do that with Reaktor's self-generators all the time.
 
ew

Thanks for the responses everyone.   Whew!  That sure sounds convoluted - but I'll give it a try and see how it works (if I can follow the steps correctly).  Sure would be nice if I could simply enable record on an audio track and send the output of the vsti to it - hehe. But maybe I can get used to doing it this way. 
 
I guess I'll create a very long dummy audio track to use for this purpose - can it be muted?  Or can it be a 20 minute recording of silence?  And this is just an audio track to give the song some length so it keeps running while I do the live bounce right?  This dummy audio track is completely separate track from the one I'm doing the live bounce on right?
 
thanks again.