Need soundcard for 5.1 Surround mixing

Author
bmpsound
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 29
  • Joined: 2004/03/20 21:31:04
  • Status: offline
2010/02/26 16:34:27 (permalink)

Need soundcard for 5.1 Surround mixing

Can anyone recommend a sound card for mixing 5.1 surround?  And while you're at it, can you recommend a speaker system that would be compatible with that particular sound card?

I'm using Sonar Pro 8 and running Windows XP Pro.

Thanks!
post edited by bmpsound - 2010/02/26 23:02:08
#1

13 Replies Related Threads

    NoKey
    Max Output Level: -71 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 974
    • Joined: 2008/10/28 15:30:19
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard fro 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/02/26 17:02:30 (permalink)
    The Audigy 2 ZS cards and some of the later ones are specifically good for that.
    Creative Labs also sells such speakers.

    You can use almost any sets of amplified speakers, amplified woofers, or route the 5.1 through amplifiers, or combinations of amplifier/amplified speakers.
    #2
    bmpsound
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 29
    • Joined: 2004/03/20 21:31:04
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard fro 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/02/26 17:18:17 (permalink)
    Thanks for you reply.  Surround is very new to me and I know nothing about getting it going.

    I searched for the Audigy 2 ZS card.  Is it only a notebook card?  I'm sorry, but I'm on a desktop system.  I should have made that clear up front.

    Any other suggestions?

    Thanks.
    #3
    seriousfun
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 641
    • Joined: 2003/11/07 19:29:54
    • Location: SoCal
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard fro 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/02/26 20:31:22 (permalink)
    Any sound card with six or more outputs will work. What audio interface do you have now?

    Six identical speakers and a subwoofer are the basics for 5.1 mixing. What main speakers do you have now?

    Doug Osborne
    #4
    bmpsound
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 29
    • Joined: 2004/03/20 21:31:04
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard for 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/02/26 23:00:46 (permalink)
    I'm currently using an Echo Mia soundcard and a pair of Mackie HR824 monitors.

    I'm thinking I need a new set of matched speakers for a surround setup.  Do they need to be powered?

    Thanks.
    #5
    NoKey
    Max Output Level: -71 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 974
    • Joined: 2008/10/28 15:30:19
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard for 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/02/27 00:31:01 (permalink)
    The 2 zs was made in both notebook and desktop models.

    There are newer models from creative that will do it too, but the 2 zs has hardware chips and related effects that are not there on some of the newer ones.

    If that matters, then check the specs, or get a used one.

    If only the 5.1 is what matters, then the newer models with specs for 5.1 would do it.

    In addition to the channels, the card has to have software support to do the proper decoding of 5.1, specially if the music has the effects encoded, like DVD's, for instance.

    The Audigy cards are designed for Theater Experience, so they come with the proper effects both in/or hardware/software.

    Also, the outputs for front, rear, and subwoofers are PHYSICALLY there in those cards...And there are many, many more internal inputs/outputs that can be used in Sonar as separate devices, because they indeed are separate.

    If the card you use only has left and right out, then it is not really meant for 5.1 sound.
    #6
    seriousfun
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 641
    • Joined: 2003/11/07 19:29:54
    • Location: SoCal
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard for 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/02/27 00:42:03 (permalink)
    Get three more HR824s and a subwoofer, and you need some sort of bass manager to integrate the subwoofer with the mains (some subwoofers have this built in).

    You need a soundcard with six analog outputs (if you want to continue with Echo products, the Audiofire 8 looks like the cheapest alternative). Decoding, etc. have nothing to do with your needs - you need an audio interface with six outs.


    Doug Osborne
    #7
    NoKey
    Max Output Level: -71 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 974
    • Joined: 2008/10/28 15:30:19
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard for 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/02/27 01:07:14 (permalink)
    seriousfun


    Get three more HR824s and a subwoofer, and you need some sort of bass manager to integrate the subwoofer with the mains (some subwoofers have this built in).

    You need a soundcard with six analog outputs (if you want to continue with Echo products, the Audiofire 8 looks like the cheapest alternative). Decoding, etc. have nothing to do with your needs - you need an audio interface with six outs.


    As said, if the sound being played has built-in surround effects, a decoder is required to decode those sounds and play them and meet the 5.1 specs, be it Dolby, THX, or other standards, as may be included in Blue Ray or HD DVD's, HDTV, etc.

    The audigy's also have optical digital output and can use digital speakers.

    Just some hi-lo pass filtering, or virtual effects, is not the same as true hardware surround, if that's what matters, and if in playing music, latency matters, then audio-cards still have the edge.
    #8
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard for 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/02/27 10:02:04 (permalink)
    Sonar is the surround decoder for your project and then you would play the exported wave file on a home theater system.  SB cards will do decoding if you want to hear the wave file on 5.1 on your computer, tho.  the soundcards like the audiofire with 6 outputs may or may not have surround decoding for 5.1 systems, you'd have to check with each one.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #9
    bmpsound
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 29
    • Joined: 2004/03/20 21:31:04
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard for 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/02/27 18:39:33 (permalink)
    Buying additional HR824's is pretty much out of the question (I don't think they make that model anymore!).  I'm trying to keep my costs down at the moment. 

    The reason I need to get into surround mixing is because of a potential TV gig.  It's down to me and three other composers.  If I get the gig I will have to deliver the mixes in 5.1 surround.  I have no other delivery specs than this at the moment.  I'm just trying to do my homework in anticipation.  The whole encoding/decoding issue is vague at this point and not sure what I might have to provide.  Does Sonar do this during the export process?

    Thanks for all the feedback so far.
    #10
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard for 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/02/27 18:48:23 (permalink)
    sonar (not sonar home studio or music creator) DOES encode for surround.  it's the playback that nokey was talking about.  if you create a wave file with 5.1 surround in sonar, you have to have a soundcard that will decode it or it will just sound like stereo.

    SB cards will decode surround, but other cards like the audiofire might or might not, you'd have to check on their website to be sure.

    home theater systems should decode surround - as long as they say they will play 5.1 or higher then that means they will decode them.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #11
    seriousfun
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 641
    • Joined: 2003/11/07 19:29:54
    • Location: SoCal
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard for 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/02/27 20:16:09 (permalink)
    Again, the key is to get five identical speakers (three more of the current Mackie equivalent would be fine, but I know how expensive they are), and a properly integrated subwoofer. I don't recommend mixing dis-similar C, Ls, and Rs speakers with your existing ones, but with enough consideration it can be done. Choose the subwoofer to suit the room, and integrate it properly with the five mains. Tomlinson Holman's book Surround Sound, Second Edition: Up and Running is a great resource. Blue Sky makes some great monitors, as do many other companies.


    ]Again, the sound card needs six outputs. This has nothing, zero, zip, nada, to do with encoding and decoding; SONAR can encode to Windows Media out of the box, and possibly multichannel Quicktime, and other compressed formats, but you absolutely will not deliver compressed files for further mixing. Whether it is for film or TV, you will deliver your mix as  .bwav files (broadcast wav files, just wav files with time stamping and other improvements, and preferred even by the Mac/Pro Tools world).  Format will be specified by the producer (probably 24 bit 48k). These will be either six individual files - one each for C L R Ls Rs and LFE - or as a multichannel .bwav file, and you can export either of thes from SONAR Producer.


    In practice, many surround music mixes will just be 4.0. C will commonly be used for dialog, and most film/TV mixers won't miss anything if the music mix has nothing in C. LFE is commonly reserved for effects, booms and bangs that happen in movies but not in music, so the LFE won't be missed, either.
    post edited by seriousfun - 2010/02/27 22:41:26

    Doug Osborne
    #12
    jasonthurley
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 264
    • Joined: 2010/07/22 15:57:06
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard for 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/07/22 16:33:29 (permalink)
    I might be a few months behind on this thread but wanted to add a few things.... 1 is a simple box that separates up to 7.1 surround... I got it for $25 including shipping:

    http://www.google.com/pro...mp;ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

    This will allow you to separate each channel if you are using a self powered speaker system or a system using a mixer/amps.

    The cheapest and not the best quality solution is to simply get a SPDF output card for your computer such as this for $15:

    http://www.meritline.com/...243.aspx?source=fghdac

    And then buying a home theater system from Wal-Mart and come out of your computer via the SPDF and into your home theater system with it... it will decode the data and give you a 5.1 mix.

    I would recommend using the 1st option as you can always "Tune" your seperate compnents to THX standards using RTA software/hardware an RTA microphone and an SPL meter.... I have made ther crappiest soudning system sound pretty damn good with processing alone... so your options are unlimited.. it just depends on what your needs are and what budget you're looking at.

    I design systems if you need assistance I would be happy to consult.

    I read above someone stated for music the LFE (or Sub Woofer channel) is really used, but it is.. for certain tracks though such as Kick, Bass, Some percussion like low toms.... What is ever being discussed is using more than just voice in the Center and/or using voice in the L and R.... but again that depends on what you want to do... music is generally not used in the center channel and voice is not generally used in L and R but it is your palette and your free to paint however you want.
    #13
    seriousfun
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 641
    • Joined: 2003/11/07 19:29:54
    • Location: SoCal
    • Status: offline
    Re:Need soundcard for 5.1 Surround mixing 2010/07/22 17:13:29 (permalink)
    That generic box won't do what the OP wants. It is only for sending out already-encoded audio over SPDIF. There is no real-time DD or DTS encoder. Again, there are a few soundcards, geared toward gaming, that have real-time hardware DD and/or DTS encoding, but I haven't had the chance to test any of them for audio work. There are very expensive external hardware encoders from Dolby and DTS.

    And again, there is plenty of headroom for your bass in five main channels, much more than there is in two channels, so there is no need ever to mix anything into the LFE channel in a music-only mix, unless you are prepared for most listeners to never hear it (the decoding downmix process discards the LFE content in most cases).

    LCR mixing is great for many things, especially vocals, and it's not a simple subject (but we've been doing it for 75 years!). To only use L & R, or only C, for main vocals in a pop/rock/whatever surround mix, would be an unfortunate limitation in many cases (but each is one of many options).

    Doug Osborne
    #14
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1