Laptop Soundcard alternatives

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gtrshop
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2010/03/24 18:02:36 (permalink)

Laptop Soundcard alternatives

For some reason I just can't see the forest for the trees...usually people pay me to find solutions....

In my current soon to be mobile setup, I'm using a midi keyboard to trigger a VSTi hosted through LiveProfessor. My MIDI interface is a Cakewalk UM-G1...cheap and simple. Gets the job done. Because my laptop sound card doesn't have an ASIO driver option, I'm using ASIO4ALL and Live Professor works just fine.

This all works together fine and I get sound out of my headphone/speaker jack on my laptop. It's been suggested that I need to use something other than my onboard audio card...and I can appreciate that it's not the best. What I'm having a problem with is what to choose. All the "interfaces" I look up seem to add ports and whatnot to get audio INTO the PC, but that isn't my problem...I need to hear my VSTi's output and doesn't the sound get created in the audio card or maybe that's where I'm getting it wrong. Where is the sound created in a typical scenario, and how does adding an external "interface" card get my audio out of my laptop? Maybe I'm just thinking too hard on this...

I thought I had USB 2.0 ports, but I'm not so sure now...will have to check on that. I have a 1394 port; being the cheap bugger I am want to keep $$ outlay down...

Tx, 

S~



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    NoKey
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    Re:Laptop Soundcard alternatives 2010/03/25 00:39:21 (permalink)
    Hi Gtrshop,

    Maybe this helps some:

    1. Digital music is data.

    2. It takes a Digital to Analog Converter (DAC) to convert that data to analog audio (what speakers handle).

    3. The DAC is located in the sound card, or anywhere else, such as  in an audio interface.

    4. The data gets to a USB audio interface via the USB cable where its own DAC converts the data to analog sound and it has audio-out jacks to go to an amplifier or to amplified speakers, or to headphones.

    5. Audio interfaces typically have sockets for micropohones or for other audio sources, such as a guitar, or a cd-player..So they send can also send data to the pc like for recording purposes. Sound cards, most of them, don't have but miniplugs, and most would not have mic preamplifier built in, as do the interfaces.

    6. So if you use an audio interface, it would bypass the soundcard.


    7. Comared to a built-in soundchip. the audio interface would have superior DAC and  also more audio processing power, and better resolution of sound quality, in a similar way that Separate video cards are generally much better quality and faster than buil-in cards.

    8. For an external audio interface, data in/out from the pc can take a little longer than it takes for a sound card, but it is manegable. Its drivers have a lot to do with that. ASIO Drivers bypass the audio routes of the Windows operating system, and add other functionalities that are not  available for audio cards that don't come with one, and that rely only on the windows facilities. Correctly installed, and used, being external is not a critical issue, except for real huge uses beyond most personal studio needs, perhaps. There are other ways of connecting external interfaces and audio, such as firewire, or coax cables, and also optical links.  There are even digital speakers, which in a way "have their own buit in little sound card or DAC, I suppose, for I don't have those, although my card can use them.

    The list can be longer, but maybe this could suffice?  What to use depends on what-for, cost and of course one's own limitations, what one already has, or happens to be familiar with, etc.


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    AT
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    Re:Laptop Soundcard alternatives 2010/03/25 01:06:02 (permalink)
    The first thing is to decide how many inputs/outputs you need.  Most units come in pairs of i/o's, so you'll just have to suck it up and get inputs, too :-)  Then USB or FW.

    Cakewalk's stuff is good and cheap (Roland units, basically).  And you have one place to turn to if there are problems between hard and software.  And it is usb (I bet you have usb 2 connections if you bought the laptop in the last couple of years and usb 1 is fast enough for 48 kHz in and out.  Most lower priced units have about the same specs and quality - the key is to get one that works w/ your setup w/o becoming a computer tech, so find a place that will let you return and trade out an interface.

    At the lower end is something like the M-audio Transit, which for $79 is good but a little long in the tooth.  Echo has a good reputation for sound quality, but if you are doing mostly vsti output, latency is the key.  The good news is that most interfaces have low latency w/ today's fast computers.  If I didn't need more inputs or preamps, I'd probably try the Echo Audiofire 2 after a Cakewalk unit.

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    gtrshop
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    Re:Laptop Soundcard alternatives 2010/03/25 08:58:49 (permalink)
    NoKey


    2. It takes a Digital to Analog Converter (DAC) to convert that data to analog audio (what speakers handle).
    -----

    I should apologize to the collective for wasting their time with this...I'm an idiot. Maybe I just had a brain fart, maybe I've been thinking about all this way too much. Of course I knew this (#2) but for whatever reason couldn't make the connection. I guess I was having trouble defining where the stream of 1's and 0's became something listenable. 

    I'm diving in to a new area...taking VST instruments into the live gig. I've hooked into a host s/w I like, and my laptop is reasonable enough for the job (Satellite A70 - 3.0Ghz core Duo, firewire, 3 USB.) Maximum RAM is only 1.5G due to hardwired 512 Mb on mainboard. Still it should suffice. The issue I'm having is that occasionally audio stutters. I'm using ASIO4ALL drivers since my lame Realtek audio doesn't have native ASIO drivers. Thus my question about external interfaces. Really all I need is a stereo pair of outs. Everything else would be gravy.

    Now, If I had multiple stereo pairs, it's possible that I could send 2 VST's to two different pairs, and control volumes @ the mixer, right?


    Complexity doesn't bother me, I'm embarrassed to say that I'm a PC tech, and couldn't identify this simple concept.

    Thanks for clearing that up...

    Steve



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    ohhey
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    Re:Laptop Soundcard alternatives 2010/03/25 10:53:00 (permalink)
    gtrshop


    For some reason I just can't see the forest for the trees...usually people pay me to find solutions....

    In my current soon to be mobile setup, I'm using a midi keyboard to trigger a VSTi hosted through LiveProfessor. My MIDI interface is a Cakewalk UM-G1...cheap and simple. Gets the job done. Because my laptop sound card doesn't have an ASIO driver option, I'm using ASIO4ALL and Live Professor works just fine.

    This all works together fine and I get sound out of my headphone/speaker jack on my laptop. It's been suggested that I need to use something other than my onboard audio card...and I can appreciate that it's not the best. What I'm having a problem with is what to choose. All the "interfaces" I look up seem to add ports and whatnot to get audio INTO the PC, but that isn't my problem...I need to hear my VSTi's output and doesn't the sound get created in the audio card or maybe that's where I'm getting it wrong. Where is the sound created in a typical scenario, and how does adding an external "interface" card get my audio out of my laptop? Maybe I'm just thinking too hard on this...

    I thought I had USB 2.0 ports, but I'm not so sure now...will have to check on that. I have a 1394 port; being the cheap bugger I am want to keep $$ outlay down...

    Tx, 

    S~


    No, the sound does NOT get created in your sound card (audio interface). That's the way it was 15 or 20 years ago but no sound cards do that now.  Even Microsoft Windows uses a software synth now.

    The way it's done now, the software synth creates all the sound inside the computer.  You do need a sound card to get the sound out of the computer but the sound card does not generate the sound or act as a sound module, it's all virtual now.

    If you don't record the setup you have is fine.  Even if the sound quality is not the best that will only affect what you hear. The final mix (export) from Sonar will be the highest quality Sonar can produce. It doesn't even need the sound card when doing that.
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    gtrshop
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    Re:Laptop Soundcard alternatives 2010/03/29 23:16:41 (permalink)
    The Realtek - based audio device in my laptop is sufficient some of the time. Often it will glitch, usually resetting the ASIO drive will fix it, but that's not something I wast to have happen in the middle of a live performance. I'm strogly considering an M-Audio Fasttrack Pro USB as an alternative since it has native ASIO supported drivers and incorporates a Midi device on board. It appears to have the ability for multiple monitoring pairs as well so I can send a balanced stereo feed to the board and keep a pair for my own monitoring.

    Would this work for me for getting my VSTI's out there?
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    AT
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    Re:Laptop Soundcard alternatives 2010/03/30 01:30:19 (permalink)
    In a word, yes.  It replaces your own board reltek w/ a higher quality audio interface, built in midi interface and better drivers.  And as, as you say, it has two stereo outputs, you could run one pair into your stage monitor and send the other to the front of house.  I'm not sure what your software is, but w/ any of cake's DAWs you could set up a send or bus to have different "mixes" coming out of the different outputs.  You should find that your VSTis don't glitch as much and will probably have a bit more quality to boot.

    There are a host of options for soundcards - be sure and buy from a place that will let you exchange it if you encounter any problems.  There aren't as many today as there use to be, but returns can save the hassle of doing tech work instead of playing.  For whatever reason some systems work w/ hardware and a few don't.  Sweet PC mystery.  Just be sure your computer exceeds the "required" or even "desirable" specs or there can be problems w/ latency, etc.

    @

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    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #7
    NoKey
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    Re:Laptop Soundcard alternatives 2010/03/30 21:56:18 (permalink)
    Gtrshop,

    The ASIO-4-ALL is a general purpose (pseudo ASIO) driver that is meant for use with minimum capability soundcards or soundchips that are not meant for high audio-data rates.

    So, with one of those cards, even using ASIO-4-ALL, depending on the audio load audio crackling or pauses can happen sooner than with better audio cards/interfaces.

    A better audio card or audio interface is akin to a graphics card (a computer in its own) dedicated to the task of converting data to analog sound (and vice-versa)...In other words, its' about more processing power, and audio quality..Audio quality has to do with the converters and also with the drivers and processing power (and your sound equipment..amps and speakers of course).

    An audioInterface/recording card will also have its own inputs and converters (analog to digital) for the external inputs...Since often the input is via microphones, the better audio cards would have built-in mic-preamplifiers...Mic-inputs and pre-amps are pretty much the norm in external audio interfaces (otherwise you'd need separate mic-preamplifier(s), or mixers with mic-preamps.

    Now, if we view one of those sound cards or audio-interfaces as "computers", then there's 16 bit 24 bit 32 bit 64 bit possibilities, and I believe the home-studio uses 24 bit, even if cards handle higher. They also have higher sampling rates than the 16k of builtin sound chips.

    The typical sound chip from Realtek, I believe is integrated into the Microprocessor along with the wireless chip..So as can be seen, a Realtek card does depend a lot on the computers microprocessor, whereas a dedicated audio/recording card relieves the pc's cpu of much of the data processing.

    Now, most, if not all, audio interfaces handle pc MIDI in/out data, via the same USB link that carries the audio in and out of the pc..If you need to plug a classic MIDI keyboard into the interface, then the interface has to have a MIDI socket...But you don't have to do it that way, since you can also connect a keyboard with USB connectivity, or use a MIDI-USB adapter onto another usb socket.

    Remember that the MIDI data is handled by a MIDI synth or MIDI-soundModule, and those are often software nowdays, either stand-alone or VST plugins.

    So, for using VST plugins you should definitely get better results from an external audio interface or card than with the Realtek built-in chip.

    The Realtek has only two audio output channels, used for left and right stereo typically, and alike, only two channels for intput recording, or to play external sounds.

    Interfaces, or home-studio cards can have more real hardware intputs and outputs, usually in even numbers, or pairs...Plus they can also have more INTERNAL inputs and outputs...And, internal inputs and outputs can be combined.

    Monitoring as you need, is also provided by most, if not all of the current intefaces and audio cards as such.
    post edited by NoKey - 2010/03/30 22:12:11
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