Best way to move/adjust song sections that use a precise tempo mapping?

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rg7621
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2010/05/17 20:50:02 (permalink)

Best way to move/adjust song sections that use a precise tempo mapping?


*EDIT* - I forgot to say that I am using SONAR, so maybe this should be moved, but I am asking about techniques


I found a few tempo mapping threads, but I have a specific question for you guys..


What is the best/easiest way to move/adjust song sections around that use a precise tempo mapping?


A common problem I run into is wanting to put in a new section between two or make section A or B longer or shorter. Making significant changes like this with a precise tempo mapping in place, is a serious pain to adjust, especially if you use 100's of tempos throughout a song.


Example..
(Section_A_@_100bpm)(Section_C_@_116bpm) - I want to be able to easily put in a (Section_B_@_60bpm), by sliding over (Section_C_@_116bpm) and keeping the tempo mapping correct.
post edited by rg7621 - 2010/05/17 21:15:23
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    ShadDOH
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    Re:Best way to move/adjust song sections that use a precise tempo mapping? 2010/05/18 01:13:57 (permalink)
    Insert series of tempos

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    Crg
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    Re:Best way to move/adjust song sections that use a precise tempo mapping? 2010/05/19 07:16:48 (permalink)
    Nudge

    Craig DuBuc
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Best way to move/adjust song sections that use a precise tempo mapping? 2010/05/19 08:11:52 (permalink)
    Multiple tempo's in a song..... nope....can't say as I do.   I try to stick to one tempo.... I don't even like to slow down at the end.... but I have.... and I don't use the tempo mapping to do it. I just slow down.... I'm sure the midi staff view looks whacked.... but who cares?

    What you're asking, seems to be difficult if you have precise tempo mapping. You'll just have to re-adjust the tempo's after the move.....probably manually.  Hopefully, the results will be worth the effort.

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    #4
    Beagle
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    Re:Best way to move/adjust song sections that use a precise tempo mapping? 2010/05/19 08:39:00 (permalink)
    put your timeline cursor at the place you want to insert the new section.  highlight all tracks by clicking on one of them then hitting CTRL-A on you keyboard.
    in the menu options, choose INSERT>TIME/MEASURES
    add the number of measures you want.  make sure and shift everything (checkboxes).
    then use the tempo map to change the tempo for the different sections.

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    #5
    Janet
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    Re:Best way to move/adjust song sections that use a precise tempo mapping? 2010/05/19 11:54:29 (permalink)
    I'm not at my DAW now, so I'm sort of 'thinking out loud.'  I've done this a few times and it IS frustrating.  When you select a section to copy, can you select 'copy tempo' also?  I know you can select markers, etc., but I can't remember what else. 
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    Philip
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    Re:Best way to move/adjust song sections that use a precise tempo mapping? 2010/05/20 11:11:39 (permalink)
    Tempo and meter changes add spice to many songs, it seems to me.

    1) Tempo changes must be viewed and re-viewed via Alt-9's tempo browser only.  You/I must get familiar its 'awkward' but excellent drawing tools.

    2) You/I can slide (alt+P+S) ('make longer/shorter') 'everything' (including tempo and markers) often without a hitch.  Again ... confirm any drastic slides with Alt-9 and your ear.

    3) You/I can 'Ctrl+X and Ctrl+V' move 'everything' (including tempo and markers) 'sometimes' without a hitch.  Again ... confirm any drastic slides with Alt-9 and your ear.

    4) Tempo changes get tricky and nasty during my workflow ... and they only work well only with MIDI 'foundations' and sketches (for me).

    Philip  
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    EyjolfurG
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    Re:Best way to move/adjust song sections that use a precise tempo mapping? 2010/05/21 08:39:36 (permalink)
    I have had problems with in the past with "insert/time measures" when the project has many clips.  It is eaven worse if there are some tempo changes. When I did that some of the clips went out of sinc. 
    I found the following solution:   In the begining of the part you want to move further back insert a tempo change. Don't change the tempo value though.  This creates a kind of a barrier in the project so if you insert measures before that all clips after that moves in sync.

    Today when I compose a song I usualy create marker on the begining of each section and I also insert a tempo change (same tempo) at the begining of each section.  Then it is easier to navigate through the project and I am pretty sure that everything stays in place if I want to instert measures or change the structure of the song.

    Eyjolfur G.
    #8
    brundlefly
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    Re:Best way to move/adjust song sections that use a precise tempo mapping? 2010/05/21 12:40:21 (permalink)

    common problem I run into is wanting to put in a new section between two or make section A or B longer or shorter.



    Inserting measures should be no problem; just cut everything including tempo changes, from the insert point on, and paste it later by however many measures you want to insert.


    Changing the length of a section full of tempo changes by scaling them all is tricky. There's no easy way, but it can be done. Below is a procedure I've posted before. It was intended to shift the tempos of a whole project, but I think it can be adapted to work on just part of one by selecting just that section, and calculating the number of frames in the selection, rather than total frames from the beginning. But I haven't tried it that way. It'll make more sense when you look at the Fit To Time dialog. It would be easier if you could specify absolute times in milliseconds or samples, but SMPTE is the only option, so you have to use frames.


    1. Enable autostretch (a.k.a. Clip Follows Project) on all audio clips. 
    2. Select a MIDI or audio clip that runs the length of the project. 
    3. Go to Process > Fit to Time. 
    4. Convert the current Thru time to total frames. 
    5. Divide that by the desired factor (e.g. 1.10 to get a 10% increase, 0.90 for a 10% decease). 
    6. Round and convert that new value to minutes:seconds:frames. 
    7. Enter that as the new Thru, and select Modify by Changing: Tempo Map. 
    8. Click Okay. 


    EDIT: I was thinking there was no option to shift tempos with Insert > Time/measures, but I guess there is, so that's even easier than Cut-Paste.




    post edited by brundlefly - 2010/05/21 12:45:12
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