how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it

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dnlfacundo
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2010/05/19 23:57:24 (permalink)

how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it

In the process of selling my first few beats and already got a couple of buyers lineded up but when it comes down to giveing the beat i dont know how i should do it.I have alot of songs in my keyboard and plan to track each instrument in on there own track in sonar 8 of course but not sure if i should arrange it or just let each track record all the way threw and let who evers gonna mix and master arrange it there own way.And how do i format the beat so who ever is mastering it can have each instrument layed out for proper mastering?Im sure i gotta ask what software its gonna be mastered in so i know who to format it too right?please can anyone help me out?
 
 
p.s.how long are songs so i know were to end the recording?
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    AT
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/20 00:31:24 (permalink)
    I would use the beat CDs as a model.  They usually provide a full mix w/ everything.  Then you can break out some stems - kick snare, all drums, then perc, bass w/ several leads they can throw over the top.  All taken, of course, from the original beat.   As a customer that is what I'd want.

    And what they are doing is mixing, not mastering.  Hopefully they'll throw some of their own riffs over the top - or are they just rapping.  One studio here in dallas makes most of their money doing that - basically the whole song that the buyers sing or rap their lyrics over.  That is why you want the main, stripped down beat w/ stuff they can throw in during the non singing breaks (or their own).

    Mixing is putting all the tracks together into a song.  Mastering is doing the final polish before printing a CD and/or making all the songs sound like they have been processed alike so they stick together.

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    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
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    Philip
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/20 10:57:16 (permalink)
    +1 AT,

    Strong beats are currently the foundation of my mixes and sometimes I like to abstract them.  80-90% of beats seem to sound best as combos with minor subtractions; because they are my foundations.

    Rap beats have oft been tempo'd in 85-90 beats/minute.

    A Beat MIDI synths (like Beatscape and StormDrums2) serve me well.

    But a CD library of beat-riffs (wave forms even) would be hot, for me!  They'd be designated by their tempos and meters 2 2, 4 4, 3 4, 6 8, etc .

    OTOH: Most of us prefer MIDI performances for our foundations.

    Another option is to sell a few 100-1000 multi-tiered MIDI performances that are intended for StormDrums (EWQL).  EW StormDrums seriously lacks Hip-Hop MIDI Performances while having some of the best variety of percussives available.  I'd pay big bucks for more Hip-hop drones and MIDI performances.

    That would be a no-brain$ blockbu$ter in the new beat world of most composers.

    Another $weet no-brainer: More beats for CW Beatscape: disco, rap, r&b, hip-hop, orchestral and film beats; beats within its 32 measure limit that are more incremental and organic.  Currently Beatscape is generic and difficult (for me) to incrementalize (it crashes Sonar, too, with some editings (I thought I had the latest version)).  Having more beats pre-fabb'd works exceedingly well for my style.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    AT
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/20 11:17:01 (permalink)
    +1 for more BEATscape material.  Cake has some stuff that is as good as anyone's out there.

    What might be interesting is if Cake gave a spot for uploading hand made beats - kinda a contest (we'll include [and pay] for beats to be used in the next version) but meanwhile you can download the uploads.

    I guess the coffee is kicking in this morning -  a strange idea that  might work.

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    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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    dnlfacundo
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/24 00:43:13 (permalink)
    i have no idea what you guys are talking about my question is how do i format a beat so someone can import it in to any other software.Do i mix down each individual track in wave so they will have each instrument on a different track/
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    montezuma
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/24 04:12:52 (permalink)
    Hey congrats on selling your beats
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/24 09:13:36 (permalink)
    You have beats sold? ...and yet the questions you are asking tend to imply that you don't know what to do......hummmmmm.

    quote: In the process of selling my first few beats and already got a couple of buyers lineded up but when it comes down to giveing the beat i dont know how i should do it.

    It would seem to me, and maybe I'm not seeing the big picture here, but it would seem to me, that first, you learn the process of recording, create a bunch of really cool beats, and then sell them....

    just saying......my 2 centavos

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    Slugbaby
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/24 09:34:02 (permalink)
    The other advice here is good, don't discount it in your rush.

    For your rush:
    1.  Mix down to WAV.
    2.  The song can be any length.  That's why most "beats" i've seen are recorded in 2- or 4- bar loops.  maybe a longer one for the pre-mixed example...

    Seriously?  People are going to pay you for this stuff?  I can understand buying loops from a famous, accomplished drummer, but from an average Joe?  Wow, cheers.

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    Philip
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/24 12:45:49 (permalink)
    Sorry we complexied things ...

    "format a beat" ... for instant use?  Here's what comes to mind in Sonar:

    1) Freeze (bounce) your synth track(s) individually: Make sure your Options\Global\Audio Data (tab): record and render depth are 16 bit ... and that your Options\Audio Options\General Tab Sampling Rate is 44100 Hz and nothing else (so all players can play your beat samples)

    2) Just drag your bounced (frozen) wave-tracks onto the desktop (or a special folder):

    Voila!  Instant beat-wave form that doesn't require exportation(s).

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    AT
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/24 13:04:02 (permalink)
    dnlfacundo


    i have no idea what you guys are talking about my question is how do i format a beat so someone can import it in to any other software.Do i mix down each individual track in wave so they will have each instrument on a different track/
    Yes and no.  Most beats (as I said above) are complete - bass and drum, maybe a rhythm guitar or keyboard.  However, many CDs collections of beats include the stems, or elements that go to make up the beat.  Each file might include the 2 kick drums in an acid file, the 2 snare hits, the bass pattern and whatever else you use broken out, so the artist can reshape your beat, dropping elements in and out.
     
    If you are just selling to a rapper or hip hop guy, just the entire beat in acid format would probably work.  As above, I find it hard to believe you are selling stuff that you don't know the basic rules to.  Congraduations.  Are you selling these beats as "work for hire" or are you covering yourself so if your clients use your beats to sell a million units you get something there.  W/ your luck, I would go the latter route.
     
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    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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    CJaysMusic
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/24 13:09:07 (permalink)
    how do i format a beat so someone can import it in to any other software

    Use wave files in  24bit and 44kHz or in any bit rate the customer suggest.
    People like 24bit wave files compared to 16bit, for obvious reasons. If i was to buy a beat, I would want 24bit and 44.1kHz sample rate or 48kHz sample rate.
    I wouldn't buy a beat that was in 16bits. Thats means it could have been dithered already and dithering is done at the very last stage of mastering
     
    how to arrange them is up to you. You can have separate server, intros and hooks or you  you see it all together as one. Its up to you
    Cj

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    Philip
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/24 14:31:31 (permalink)
    CJ is right,

    ... 24-bit is better for many producers for the reasons that CJ cited ... but not if your Beatscape-oid MIDIs Samplers are already 16 bit samplers (which they probably are).

    Most mortals detect 24 bit with vox performances only.

    Heck, I used MP3 beats that YoyoFactory created (from Beatscape samples); my ears love them AS IS.

    But its apples and oranges:

    1) Most producers actually use 16-bit orchestral samples from EWQLSO Gold ... our ears simply don't lust for better.  The problem is 24 bit requires memory expansions for us.

    2) I sincerely doubt EWQL StormDrums are other than 16 bit depth

    3) I sincerely doubt Sonar BeatScape, DimPro, Toontrack, and all the other top-notch drum programs use 24 bit depth samples ... else my computer would be 'used up by now'

    4) If your customer is straitforward (like the Op and I); and he wants to sample your performance MIDI's quickly from his desktop; just give him generic 16 bit samples.

    5) The customer, the op, and certainly I, probably can't tell the difference btw MP3s and 24 bit ... when it comes to generic beats.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

    Raised-Again 3http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12307501
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/24 16:00:46 (permalink)
    Heck...I wanna know the line you used to sell beats before you even wrote them!

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    skullsession
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/24 16:49:34 (permalink)
    dnlfacundo

    p.s.how long are songs so i know were to end the recording?

    This is the part I can't figure out.

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    papa2005
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/24 16:57:56 (permalink)
    skullsession


    dnlfacundo

    p.s.how long are songs so i know were to end the recording?

    This is the part I can't figure out.


    I haven't figured out any of it...

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    CJaysMusic
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/24 17:38:53 (permalink)
    how long are songs so i know were to end the recording?

    I just wanted to add, that this question can never be answered. Every song is not the same length.
     
    I think you should research your business plan a few more weeks or months and find out what you need to do.
    That's just my opinion. Because asking how long your songs should be, gives the impression that there is allot more you do not know. Dont take this the wrong way, Im just speaking direct and how i feel after reading your post.
     

    mix and master

    Also people who buy beats want them to be already mastered and radio ready. Your beats (intro, verse, chorus, hooks) need to be ready to go. They need to be mixed and mastered and ready for air play and CD burning.
    People who buy beats, usually just want to rap or sing over it and need something sounding professional to begin with.
     
    Research your business plan more, is my advice to you.
    Cj

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    Legion
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/25 05:26:48 (permalink)
    Very normal for hip hop is an 8 bar intro, 16 bar verse, 8 bar chorus then 16 bar verse 2, 8 bar chorus 2, 16 bar verse 3, 16 bar chorus/outro. You have to count the song lenght in bars and not in seconds.

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    Philip
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/25 07:40:36 (permalink)
    +1 Legion

    ... a lot like the Pop Norm, I guess.

    Philip  
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    guitardog247
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/25 12:56:53 (permalink)
    What format is the OP's beats in now? He said he had the tracks in Sonar. I don't understand this.

    If you "sell" beats, are you selling just midi data? Or WAVE samples, or both?

    If they are WAVE samples, they should be samples you actually recorded and/or created, correct? If you're using sounds off of a keyboard/softsynth/VST or whatever, wouldn't that be uncool or not legal?

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/25 16:20:49 (permalink)
    guitardog247


    What format is the OP's beats in now? He said he had the tracks in Sonar. I don't understand this.

    If you "sell" beats, are you selling just midi data? Or WAVE samples, or both?

    If they are WAVE samples, they should be samples you actually recorded and/or created, correct? If you're using sounds off of a keyboard/softsynth/VST or whatever, wouldn't that be uncool or not legal?


    You can sell samples.... as long as you create the patterns and you have not stolen the samples from another artist's work.  Store bought sampled sounds are ok to use.... as long as they are original patterns from the deepest recesses of your cranial cavity.

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    Legion
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/26 01:58:25 (permalink)
    To ease the confusion here it's like this: The term "beat" in hiphop does not mean a drum loop-sample. "Beat" refers to a full length instrumental composition that has already been mixed (sadly often even poorly premastered) and rappers later can perform to/record over.

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    hairyjamie
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/26 03:07:01 (permalink)
    Legion


    To ease the confusion here it's like this: The term "beat" in hiphop does not mean a drum loop-sample. "Beat" refers to a full length instrumental composition that has already been mixed (sadly often even poorly premastered) and rappers later can perform to/record over.


    Aaaaaahhhhh ... [plink] the penny has dropped for me!
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    AT
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/26 11:11:12 (permalink)
    Yea, Legion, I thought that was what the guy was talking about but wasn't sure.  It is confusing for a lot of song writers.  Like I said in my first post, a studio I use does a lot of that work but there was still the shorter form of beats to deal w/.  We got sidetracked, and the op seems to have dropped out.  I guess the "how long should the beat be"should have clued me into the entire song aspect.

    good one, Legion.

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    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
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    Legion
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/26 12:05:26 (permalink)
    Yeah, and I agree it can be confusing. As a primarily "hiphop" (even if I aint in much into that whole 5 elements-culture, though I respect it) person I still dislike the term beatmaker. I prefer to call myself a track composer (or simply producer even if that originally has nothing to do with writing the actual music). The term beat, and beatmaker, seem a little derogatory to me. We, the "beatmakers", are composers and not drummers



    ...jst kidding, hope no drummer got offended.


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    guitardog247
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/26 12:52:43 (permalink)
    Oh I see. So when the OP asked "how long are songs so i know were to end the recording?", the answer could have been - as long as you want it to be... Or 3:30



     


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    Legion
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/26 13:46:08 (permalink)
    Exactly. But I think the question was more of "how are hiphop tracks normally arranged" but formulated in a way that was a bit confusing.

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    leapinlizard
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/26 17:39:36 (permalink)
    Speaking of the OP ... ???

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    andirock81
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    Re:how to format a beat for sell and how to arrange it 2010/05/27 09:28:49 (permalink)
    I think legion nailed this thread.  Arranging is my greatest weakness right now. 

    They probably want a final mixdown, unless they are a producer themselves in which case you could offer them stems and see if they want them or not. 
    post edited by andirock81 - 2010/05/27 09:30:28

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