Express Card Slot for Firewire 1394(b)

While the threads on Firewire implementation are numerous, I can't seem to find my specific question addressed. 
 
Is the firewire port provided on a laptop Express Card slot faster than USB 2.0?  More importantly, will that solution take care of the latency issue?  I'm used to 2 to 4 ms of latency, not the 20 or so I'm reading about. 
 
I've never recorded through a USB or Firewire audio interface - I've always used Desktop PCI cards, like the Audiophile 2496.  I read about latency issues, and how many USB/Firewire interfaces provide "direct monitoring" on the interface itself, to work around the latency.  This is confusing to me since direct monitoring would suggest my recorded audio is not aligned with the already-recorded audio.  Does anyone use either of these solutions and how does it work?  More trouble than it's worth? 

Yeah, I've heard of this DPC latency issue.  Not sure how to deal with it.  I know I can download a latency checker, but somehow I doubt Best Buy or Microcenter is going to let me run some executable on their showroom laptops.  

Anything I can look for to reduce this?  I'm aware I need at least a 7200 RPM hard drive, and dual core processing is a must, 3 to 4 G's of RAM - beyond that, what can I do? 

Personally, I'd rather be able to run an external hard drive just for audio with an external audio interface.  But I figured that would just introduce all kinds of latency.  So, I've scaled back to just an external audio interface, but I want to eliminate as much latency as I can. 

And maybe it's not an issue.  Like I said, I keep reading about "direct monitoring" on the interface so you can hear your instrument without delay, but I'm just not sure how this keeps audio tracks aligned. 

derFunkenstein


Express Card slots are a mobile form of PCI Express, and generally they're a single lane of PCI Express connectivity.  What I can't figure out is why companies aren't making audio interfaces for the format - nearly every laptop made in the last couple of years has one.  RME's cards are just firewire cards with some sort of proprietary tech.

So, being a form of PCI Express, can I count on its speed more than USB?  Seems it would be almost like having a PCI card.
 
What I'm seeing here is 2 different kinds of latency.  Audio path latency, being an issue with the Audio interface and how it passes data to the Laptop PC.  And then DPC latency being an issue independent of that path.    Is that remotely accurate?
 
So, what I'm asking then, does this PCI Express Firewire port solution eliminate the audio path side of the latency issue?  Can data get from my Audio Interface to the PC and back again, round trip, at low 2 to 3 ms if DPC latency were miraculously eliminated? 
 
I realize that despite that audio connection, I will still suffer DPC latency, and I will deal with that next.  But I have to get it all straight in my head first.  My impression has been that USB will cause terrible latency even on the best of desktops (with no DPC latency), due to the nature of that connection.  So I haven't been too interested in it.  If USB could support an audio path that provided for 2 ms of round trip latency then I'd be interested.
 
 

ParanoiA


So, being a form of PCI Express, can I count on its speed more than USB?  Seems it would be almost like having a PCI card. 

No, because the controllers on both the hardware you're connecting and the card you're using in the computer are set to run at a certain bandwidth, in this case 400mbit/sec, which is roughly 50MByte/sec. 

In reality, most on-board Firewire controllers are connected by the exact same PCI or PCI-express controller on the computer's motherboard.  You *should* not get any more or less bandwidth using one over the other, assumign the firewire controllers are the same.  In no way would you ever exceed the 400mbit bandwidth of the Firewire protocol.
 
Since USB2 generally won't approach its 480mbit/sec theoretical spec Firewire has almost always been faster in practice than USB2.0. 

    Hello... here is a good technical page on firewire and USB... http://computer.howstuffworks.com/firewire.htm "Speed aside, the big difference between FireWire and USB 2.0 is that USB 2.0 is host-based, meaning that devices must connect to a computer in order to communicate. FireWire is peer-to-peer, meaning that two FireWire cameras can talk to each other without going through a computer." This means a FireWire product can be dasiy-chained together... ( nice future expansion of units)... but also means USB can be CPU intensive in tasks.

    And yes... there happens to be different FireWire chip makers... and there are alot of note worthy and not note worthy BLOGS on the subject... Each Manufacturer can, and do use, different chipsets in their Audio Interfaces... And the success and use, seems to vary from one product to another... in other words if you decide to go FireWire make sure you get the manufacturers recomended interface card and make sure that card is going to work in the PC you buy.
  
    As in your doubts about running DPC Checker on a PC before you buy it... The program is a single file... size of it is only 308K... LOL... you could take it in to the store on a floppy disk!!!... ( but would suggest using a thumb drive... would look more... well... you know. ) The program runs a small graphical display on the screen that can be WINDOWED like any other windows program... minimized... taskbar'd... running in the background as you test the PC's programs and operations. 
    The ACID test here would be to go into the bios and turn off the network adapter and check the Latency peaks of the computer... as you will not be on the NET as you do your DAW operations. The internet connection/hardware is a major culprit of latency. What you are mainly looking at is... how smooth is the hardware/software operations being processed through your CPU?
 
    As to your original question to "Direct Monitoring"... I found this bit of explanation for you... http://www.centrance.com/about/tr/Latency.pdf . It seems to me that the less you rely on a processed signal from your DAW you will get low latency... for example... Using outboard equipment for your signal in... and having your DAW signals pre-processed ( no plug-ins ) for your monitored tracks. Why don't you post another Forum question titled something like this... "Direct Monitoring... What is it?" and... "What is the Best Direct Monitoring FireWire Interface?" 
 
Have a Great Audio Life...

Hello...

    Not at all... in fact you will see new motherboards will have 6 or 8 SATA ports... I will recomend getting at least 7200 rpm SATA2 300 drives, ( pretty standard ) with 16M cache. This is pretty much Plug and Play, standard new build equipment, and will be very cost effective per Gigabyte of storage. What else is different? the cables are a little like a telephone cable... nice... less clutter!!! and the power connecter is different too... but then agian the new power supplies will have these.
    The SATA hardrives will work faster for what ever you do on the computer... check prices, read reviews and buy the Name Brands. By the way what are you looking into for the new DAW? Processor? Motherboard?

Have a Great Audio Life...

    Hey... sorry to hear about the studio breakup... ( breakin )... Ya... why don't theives leave us musicians alone...

    One of my special places to shop for computer hardware information is TomsHardware.com... This place has all the tests and charts on about anything made or going to be made. Since you mentioned AMD, I thought you might want to look at their monthly article on CPU's prices. AMD always seems to make their list of best buys and it seems you can get 3 cores and 3GHZ for around $75... http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-phenom-ii-corei-i5,2647.html .

    Yes I'm a Gigabyte board believer/user... good choice. what video card were ya looking at using?

Back to the OP's original question... I was wondering the same thing. Ever since I discovered that my notebook's express card port is governed by the esteemed TI controller. Would I get the much touted blazing performance if I got an express card to firewire adapter and then got a nice firewire audio interface? I'm using an Indigo IOx in the express card slot now but it offers limited IO functionality.

Here's the specs:
System Bus 4
Type : PCIe 1.00 x1 2.5Gbps
Multiplier : 3x
Bridge : Intel 82801H (ICH8) PCI Express Port 2
Device Connected to Port : TI PCI Express to PCI Bridge

System Bus 5
Type : PCIe 1.00 x1 2.5Gbps
Multiplier : 3x
Bridge : TI PCI Express to PCI Bridge
Device Connected to Port : Echo Digital Audio 56361 Audio I/O Controller (MIDI)