Garry Stubbs
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M/S Mic selection question
I would like to try some mid/side recording of my acoustic guitar tracks. I dont yet however have a figure-8 pattern mic for the "side" signal but have my sights on an MXL ribbon mic which would fit the bill. However I have read that the mid and side mics used should be fairly well matched so that the colour of the signal does not vary across the stereo image. That being the case, a ribbon mic as the side mic would not be a good choice, as it would be the only ribbon mic in my armoury.
My questions are; Is the matching mic advice for M/S recording correct, and if so,what constitutes matching mics when needing 2 mics of differing patterns?
https://soundcloud.com/garry-kiosk Sonar Platinum 64-bit: Q6600 8Gb Win7 64-bit: KRK Monitors: ART MPA PRO VLA ii preamp: 3 x 500Gb internal SATA disks: Superior Drummer2: GPO4: Realstrat: Saxlab: Rapture: Dimension Pro: Ozone 4: Edirol SPS-660: PCR-500 MIDI controller: Korg PadKontrol: Fender / Gibson / Yamaha / Ibanez guitars:Guitar Rig 5: Dual 22" Monitors: Mapex Drums, Sabian AAX cymbals: Alesis DM5 Pro Kit: SE Electronics and Shure Mics: Mathmos Lava Lamp (40W)
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:M/S Mic selection question
2010/07/01 18:24:45
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Well, I like the idea of matched mics... but other folks think it's really cool to do X/Y with different mics... and say things like... "it's really cool"... or... "who has a matched pair of ears?"... stuff like that.
Which means you can pretty much do what ever you want and probably get some good results.
I'd go for it and try the ribbon. Worry about matching later... unless you plan on getting a pair of mics any way and already have the money in the bank.
best regards,
mike
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Garry Stubbs
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Re:M/S Mic selection question
2010/07/01 18:38:27
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Thanks for the input Mike, I know you are involved in TV broadcast recording, and M/S and X/Y are routinely used in this field, so your opinion counts. I already own a matched pair of AKG's and although suitable for X/Y, they are both cardioid and therefore unsuitable for M/S.
The UK supplier of the MXL ribbon mic has it on eBay UK with make an offer option, so I am waiting for them to come back to me on my offer I submitted earlier. If rejected I want to know if the enticement of M/S options for it give me an incentive to increase my offer
https://soundcloud.com/garry-kiosk Sonar Platinum 64-bit: Q6600 8Gb Win7 64-bit: KRK Monitors: ART MPA PRO VLA ii preamp: 3 x 500Gb internal SATA disks: Superior Drummer2: GPO4: Realstrat: Saxlab: Rapture: Dimension Pro: Ozone 4: Edirol SPS-660: PCR-500 MIDI controller: Korg PadKontrol: Fender / Gibson / Yamaha / Ibanez guitars:Guitar Rig 5: Dual 22" Monitors: Mapex Drums, Sabian AAX cymbals: Alesis DM5 Pro Kit: SE Electronics and Shure Mics: Mathmos Lava Lamp (40W)
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rumleymusic
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Re:M/S Mic selection question
2010/07/01 18:58:37
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The beauty of mid side is the mics do not need to be matched color wise. The stereo image is a result of the phase differences between the two, so there shouldn't be a shifting image. Though yes they should be similar frequency wise to provide an adequate image. So a condenser mid and ribbon side might be a problem because you will have a mass of high frequency information in the mid unrelated to the side. Though, this might not be a big problem with a centered image like a solo guitar.
So the MXL could work just fine in your situation.
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Garry Stubbs
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Re:M/S Mic selection question
2010/07/01 19:04:54
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Good point, it's making sense to me now.
https://soundcloud.com/garry-kiosk Sonar Platinum 64-bit: Q6600 8Gb Win7 64-bit: KRK Monitors: ART MPA PRO VLA ii preamp: 3 x 500Gb internal SATA disks: Superior Drummer2: GPO4: Realstrat: Saxlab: Rapture: Dimension Pro: Ozone 4: Edirol SPS-660: PCR-500 MIDI controller: Korg PadKontrol: Fender / Gibson / Yamaha / Ibanez guitars:Guitar Rig 5: Dual 22" Monitors: Mapex Drums, Sabian AAX cymbals: Alesis DM5 Pro Kit: SE Electronics and Shure Mics: Mathmos Lava Lamp (40W)
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:M/S Mic selection question
2010/07/01 20:07:10
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I'm not up to much today, so I'll do a few recordings for you. I have a pair of Rode K2's, so I'll do a M/S acoustic with those, then swap the mid for a 58 as well as a behringer b1. Unfortunately I have no ribbon to do this test with.
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Jeff Evans
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Re:M/S Mic selection question
2010/07/01 20:18:41
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The microphones in an MS setup do not have to be matched. But I would still use two quality condenser mikes though. Using a SM58 for the M mike and some very high quality mike as the S mike may give unusual results.
I just love the concept. The reason it is so good is because the M mike is pointing directly at the front source. Unlike an XY setup (coincident or noncoincident) which neither mike is pointing directly at the front source. Also you have got the decoder options of varying the M S balance which is also a great thing to be able to do after the fact.
It is also a great way to record a string quartet. Set them up in a nice 180 degree arc and put the MS setup right in the middle or centre of the arc pointing foward.
Another good thing to do is put the M mike into Omni as well in some situations. It just brings in the room a little more especially if it is a nice sounding room.
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:M/S Mic selection question
2010/07/01 20:29:19
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Jeff Evans
Using a SM58 for the M mike and some very high quality mike as the S mike may give unusual results.
Yeah, I can imagine it's gonna sound terrible! But might as well try it out. If you had only two mics with variable polar patterns, and one was great and one was terrible, I would probably want to use the great one for M and the lesser one for the S. This also means if the signal goes to mono, you still get to keep your nice sounding mic. Oh and the omni for your M can sound great as Jeff said too. Also remember that often the frequency response does change when switching from cardiod to omni. In the case my my Rode K2's, in cardiod there is a peak at around 5khz, and 10khz, but in omni, it only has the 10khz peak. Something to listen for when setting up these things.
post edited by mattplaysguitar - 2010/07/01 20:34:55
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Garry Stubbs
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Re:M/S Mic selection question
2010/07/02 03:38:31
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I really appreciate your input guys. Surprisingly, I had my 1st offer for the new MXL ribbon mic accepted earlier this morning, so I really am in the M/S game now ! Unlike some of you guys, I dont possess any mics with switchable polar patterns so I have to find the best results with what I have.
https://soundcloud.com/garry-kiosk Sonar Platinum 64-bit: Q6600 8Gb Win7 64-bit: KRK Monitors: ART MPA PRO VLA ii preamp: 3 x 500Gb internal SATA disks: Superior Drummer2: GPO4: Realstrat: Saxlab: Rapture: Dimension Pro: Ozone 4: Edirol SPS-660: PCR-500 MIDI controller: Korg PadKontrol: Fender / Gibson / Yamaha / Ibanez guitars:Guitar Rig 5: Dual 22" Monitors: Mapex Drums, Sabian AAX cymbals: Alesis DM5 Pro Kit: SE Electronics and Shure Mics: Mathmos Lava Lamp (40W)
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:M/S Mic selection question
2010/07/03 03:36:35
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Kiosk Project, please refer to this thread for my quick test: http://forum.cakewalk.com...25&mpage=1#2046225 In short, this particular test suggested that two different mics WON'T work well together. I did not think it would be as bad as it was. Edit: Underlined 'suggested' as I would agree with mike that these results are inconclusive. I think they are still interesting all the same.
post edited by mattplaysguitar - 2010/07/03 08:47:42
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:M/S Mic selection question
2010/07/03 08:08:49
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I disagree... read post #2 on Matt's new thread.
best,
mike
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