When to mix down MIDI to Audio?

Hello,

I am writing electronic dance/pop music.   I was wondering when should I bounce all my midi files to audio, OR is it even necessary.   Should I be bouncing as I work?  See I wouldn't think that is a good idea because what if last minute I want to change a synth parameter?  Should they be bounced to audio before mixing?    Just wondering how you guys work.  

Thanks,
Adam

I tend to bounce as soon as I have the midi sounding like I want.  

Unless you are working with customized patches or samples, all you need to do after the bounce is remove the synth and archive the midi track. This allows you to edit and tweeze a track after you have bounced it if you need to do so.  Just make a note on the patch/sample name so you can easily reload it.

There are many ways to work on this..... if you are able to run the whole project in the midi mode with real time synths, there is no problem in mixing in that mode. I have some resource intensive synths and FX, so I tend to bounce often before moving to the next track.

Ahh thanks guys... good input.   I will think about it.   I'm one of those very "uncertain" musicians where I am never sure if I am happy with my sound, so I am always going back, which means bouncing may not be the best way for me, I will see though.  Maybe a good mix of both implemented nicely.   You guys answered my question though.  I was wondering if softsynths sound better bounced to audio before a mixdown, but it appears not.

Thanks Again!
Adam

Cool thanks NoKey.   How do you know if your synth is cutting down on quality though?  I only know in Z3TA you can see if it's in DRAFT or not.

Thanks!
Adam

Guitarhacker


I tend to bounce as soon as I have the midi sounding like I want.  

Unless you are working with customized patches or samples, all you need to do after the bounce is remove the synth and archive the midi track. This allows you to edit and tweeze a track after you have bounced it if you need to do so.  Just make a note on the patch/sample name so you can easily reload it. 

I use this workflow too.  Besides, there's something cooler about being able to see the waveforms...
I like to bounce to audio so i can remove the clutter of the synth tracks and FX.

adamlewis7609


Hello,

I am writing electronic dance/pop music.   I was wondering when should I bounce all my midi files to audio, OR is it even necessary.   Should I be bouncing as I work?  See I wouldn't think that is a good idea because what if last minute I want to change a synth parameter?  Should they be bounced to audio before mixing?    Just wondering how you guys work.  

Thanks,
Adam

THe workflow I find is good (for me) is to keep all the MIDI/Synth tracks normal until I'm pretty sure I have all the parts the way I want.
 
Once that point is reached and I think I'm going more into a mixing mode, I "Freeze" (as oppose to bounce) the synth tracks but I also set the freeze option to *NOT* freeze the FX.   This accomplishes two things:
1- I can unfreeze the synth should I decide to make some changes at a later point, and RE-freeze to get back to an audio format.
2- I can keep "processing" the FX as I please, because I didn't freeze them -- I only freeze the synth data.
 
At that point, I have everything as "audio" (a frozen track IS audio at that point).   It's a lot easier to be in mixing mode with all audio, and you keep any automation/processing on the audio track.
 
You can then archive the MIDI tracks so you don't have the clutter, if you so choose (or simply HIDE those tracks).   And freezing also releases the memory from the frozen synths (if you have that option set, though it's the default).
 
The only problem with this approach is a problem in Sonar, which is that Sonar does not "color" the frozen tracks.  So you end up with basically all WHITE audio tracks (the waveforms are black though).   It's one of those things I just live with, though I WISH Cakewalk would correct that.  Coloring things helps with organization and visualization of the tracks/layouts, etc.   But oh well.
 
Anyway, that's my general approach.
 
And PS _ I do a lot of dance/pop stuff too.
 

I don't bounce until the end because I am a control freak but doing it sooner than later is better. If you need to track some new idea near the end, the latency is killer and in this situation, global bypass is your friend.

Thanks AdamLewis - these are things i've been wondering too. Helpful thread.

I have a sub-question related to this topic if you don't mind...
If you Freeze tracks, you have to Unfreeze them to make edits, right? I'm sure i have made edits to frozen tracks, thawed them out, and the edits have gone. I can't remember if this happened to edits in the FX bin of a track - but certainly 'physical' changes to the audio clips - cutting etc seem to 'revert back' on thawing.

As I mentioned I bounce when I have it right.... I am not too worried about deleting something. Synths, midi tracks, audio tracks.... the way I see it, they are all easy enough to redo. I will save a midi source track if I like it, because they are so small and once the synth is removed from the project they are not a problem. It is easy to edit them and pop the synth back in later if I change my mind..... which I don't really do too often.

I will delete a track in a heartbeat and not sweat it. I have found that I can usually record a new track and do a better performance than the first one..... it might be a bit of work and time... but I always believe that the next track WILL be better than the last one.

I am also NOT a perfectionist. I do try to get as much stuff right as possible and I will toil over a project to smooth out the rough spots..... but I will not fret over the minor discrepancies in the song. If I did, I would never get anything finished. I try to shoot for (numerically) 95% or better.  I think it's better to have 100 really good songs done than one perfect song finished.

Just my opinion.

If you Freeze tracks, you have to Unfreeze them to make edits, right? I'm sure i have made edits to frozen tracks, thawed them out, and the edits have gone.

If you think of a frozen track as a normal audio track, un-freezing as equivalent to deleting all clips from said track, and re-freezing the same as re-recording an audio track, you'll avoid problems with unexpected lost edits.