robbyk
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Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
Any advice is appreciated. I have a Lexicon MPX 500 Dual Channel Processor and an old Audio-Technica AT-RMX64 6-Input Mixer and I have been considering experimenting with running a track or even a CD mix out out through the board from Sonar to see if it will add any warmth or air, etc. I have often read about this eg [EQ Mag, Sept 2010, p66] "he [Andy Johns] likes to run it through an analog mixer, because it just gives it a little plump" but as a new convert to Sonar and the digital realm, I still have a lot to learn. Specifically, I'm thinking about warming up some harsh synths or guitar tracks created in Line 6 podfarm, adding analog reverb to vocals and even running an entire song through for warmth prior to mastering or even an entire CD mix for just a touch of reverb to add album coherence... Is this common practice? Am I on the right track in considering this? Thanks again.
"I'm just workin' on a good life, the way it is." Best, Robby K PC Specs: Dell XPS Tower, Intel Core i5 7400 CPU 3 GHz @, 8 GB RAMHardware: Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Line 6 TonePort UX1, ART Tube MP, JBL LSR2325P 5" Bi-Amped MonitorsSoftware: Windows 10 Home, Sonar 8.5.3 Producer, Sonar Producer X1, Sonar Producer X2 expanded, Sonar Producer X3, Ableton Live 8.3.4, Ozone, Alloy, Toontrack, Podfarm, IK Multimedia, Garritan, Melodyne, Antares, Bias, Rob Papen, OhmForce, Don't Crack... Music Studio
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dontletmedrown
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/23 13:22:55
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I do it all the time with outboard compression and EQ. Try it!
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/23 14:14:46
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Yea, I do it all the time with EQ and compression also. But I do it with entire mixes and not single tracks for the most part Cj
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Sijel
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/23 14:16:50
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he [Andy Johns] likes to run it through an analog mixer, because it just gives it a little plump Maybe he does, but he's also quoted as saying "You don't get your sound out of a console, you get your sound from the room." (ref: http://bobbyowsinski.com/The_Mixing_Engineers_Handbook_-_Andy_Johns_Interview.html) I used to play with external gear a lot. But since Sonar 8.5, I've been exclusively mixing in the box. Vintage Channel, Guitar amp sims and some of the other plugins (like from PSP) have provided enough warmth inside the box for me. IMHO, it's just so much simpler than screwing around with the racks. Now, if I had a spare Neve console like Andy might have, I might think otherwise...
Microsoft Surface Book w/ Surface dock, dual 24-inch HD displays, Sonar Platinum, THD 4, GuitarRig, Amplitube, (Kontakt4), Garritan PO, Trillian Bass 1.3, Roland Octa-Capture, Waves Gold & various Waves, PSP and T-Racks plugins.KRK Rokit6, Lefty Guitars & Bass, racks/pedals galore and many other fun things.
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drewfx1
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/23 15:21:41
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Nothing wrong with going outside the box if you have some analog gear you like. But I would fix "harsh" sounding stuff at the source, or not use it all, before trying to "fix" it with some mythological analog magic bullet.
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robbyk
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/23 21:47:53
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CJ, Dave Thanks for the reply! Sounds like EQ and compression are major uses, now I'm lusting after outboard gear, too! Maybe an API Sijel, I like PSP plugins too, I'll go back to some of those too. I also wish I had acces to a Neve console! Drewfx1, you are correct, always do it right and then it's good to go. Well that's what I was wondering so thank you all much for the expert feedback! I'm going to go and check it out!
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brundlefly
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/24 14:17:10
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m thinking about warming up some harsh synths or guitar tracks created in Line 6 podfarm, adding analog reverb to vocals The MPX 500, like the vast majority of hardware reverbs, is digital, not analog. Just because an effect is in a hardware box does not make it analog. It might be a great reverb, and worth using for its particular sound, but it won't add "analog warmth". I wouldn't expect too much from a solid-state analog mixing board, either. The analog input and output sections of your interface and the transducers in your mics and monitors are already adding several layers of analog transfer to your "harsh" digital signal. If that's not getting it, a pass through a neutral mixer isn't likely to change that. What most people mean by "analog warmth" is the effect of vacuum tube amplification and/or magnetic tape saturation, or at least analog compression or EQ as CJay is referring to.
post edited by brundlefly - 2010/08/24 14:18:42
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robbyk
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/24 16:19:28
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brundlefly That is fabulous advice and clears up a LOT in my mind...so basically I should be looking for something like a dbx 386 [tube preamp] to warm up my mixes... Regarding my old board and reverb, thanks for pointing that out, as it went over my head as I was thinking about it the past week...so for that I can use it basically as a really nice reverb if I choose. Thanks so much!
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johnnyV
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/24 16:27:53
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It's a can be a good idea if what you are using is high end analog equipment and you think that analog is better sounding than good quality digital equipment for some reason. But that board is not hi end and if you don't like the sounds you are recording, running them through a magic box will not help. I miss using a mixing desk for a few reasons but I'll get over it.
post edited by johnnyV - 2010/08/24 17:00:28
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/24 16:31:22
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CJ, Dave Thanks for the reply! Sounds like EQ and compression are major uses, now I'm lusting after outboard gear, too! Maybe an API Sigel, I like PSP plugins too, I'll go back to some of those too. I also wish I had access to a Neve console! Drewfx1, you are correct, always do it right and then it's good to go. Well that's what I was wondering so thank you all much for the expert feedback! I'm going to go and check it out! haha, just remember that the quality of your converters may come into play when you take something back out and back into your DAW. The better your A/D and D/A converters are, the most likely you will be degrading your audio signal. Also take into account, the quality of your hardware gear and the noise it may introduce. So if you want to be doing this, you may want to invest in some high end converters Cj
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John
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/24 16:43:36
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One can add all the "warmth" one wants with plugins. Warmth by the way is distortion. What you are hearing with Sonar is what its supposed to sound like. What people need to do instead of comparing an analog recording to digital is really compare digital to the unrecorded sound. Then compare it to analog and an unrecorded sound. See which is closest. Digital will win every time. I don't care how good the analog gear is.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/24 16:55:51
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Then compare it to analog and an unrecorded sound. See which is closest. Digital will win every time. I don't care how good the analog gear is. Unless they lie because they think its rigged!! OH, that was another thread...LOL Sorry
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John
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/24 16:58:13
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CJaysMusic Then compare it to analog and an unrecorded sound. See which is closest. Digital will win every time. I don't care how good the analog gear is. Unless they lie because they think its rigged!! OH, that was another thread...LOL Sorry Yep, I know of which you are referring. LOL Loudly.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/24 17:03:28
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LOL, Thats good, because only a few will probably get that joke Cj
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robbyk
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/24 23:25:17
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Well I didn't get the joke but all that matters is I do have my nose in my Sweetwater catalog right now. I really appreciate all the advice and good natured help, I love learning and I really love working with Sonar and recording for all of 1 year now; I've got a ways to go but I'm enjoying the ride!
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johnnyV
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Re:Running Sonar mixes /tracks out to analog
2010/08/25 13:49:58
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The joke was from a long winded thread reguarding how even pro's couldn't hear the difference bla bla bla. It's a hot topic hear Analog VS Digital etc. Don't worry about it. Bottom line is garbage in garbage out so good recordings always start with good sounds and good playing. You mentioned wanting to make some harsh sounds better by running them through analog gear. There are some who will still master to tape to get the sound they like, But they are using very good equipment. You and I probably can't afford that stuff so don't worry, the equipment you have will work to make great recordings if you take the time to do each step properly. I listened to some of your stuff on your web site. Good voice nice and clear and warm sounding, There a lot of distortion on the tracks. I don't know how you encoded them but you might want to re do them.
Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional Scarlett 6i6Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedalsTascam Gear= DR 40 - US1641 -Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1 home buildTaylor mini GS - G& L Tribute Tele - 72 Fender Princeton - TC BH 250 - Mooer and Outlaw Pedals Korg 05/RW
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