louis.stacey
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Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
Hi, i have been recording with my band, which consists of 2 guitarists, a bassist and drummer. But included in our songs are some Midi Synth tracks which we would like to hear live - but without having to find another member to play them. What we want is to be able to play the synth tracks as a backing track for live gigs, and have a metronome in the drummers ears only (so that no metronome is coming out the P.A) Is this possible?? I believe you must need 2 outputs with the click only going through one... But how?? Can anyone please help?!?! Many, many thanks
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jamescollins
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2010/09/05 09:20:50
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Make a stereo track like this: backing track in mono, panned hard left, and pan your metronome hard right. Feed the left channel to the PA, the right to the drummer. Voila!
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2010/09/05 09:31:37
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The above will work but depending on your set up, you could also set up a metronome track to a separate output that feeds headphones for your drummer. The stereo main outs can then go to your PA for the synths giving full stereo out front. Edit for clarity.
post edited by FastBikerBoy - 2010/09/05 09:33:48
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louis.stacey
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2010/09/05 09:32:28
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Hey thanks very much for the help, its much appreciated. so do i do this on sonar? or is there a way to do it from CD? also my laptop only has one output, would i need to invest in any equipment?? Thanks!
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jamescollins
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2010/09/05 09:51:49
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I've made a few backing tracks doing exactly this for bands I've recorded, and I've always found that it's best to keep it simple, especially if they're not playing big venues, where the sound equipment/engineer can be a little dodgy. Here's a quick way to do it in Sonar... Route your backing track to a bus, and change the interleave to mono. Pan this hard left and route to the Master Bus. Insert any soft synth with percussive sounds, let's say Cakewalk TTS-1. Choose a patch which will cut through everything and be clear for the drummer, then draw in a bar of quarter notes in PRV mode. Copy this bar and paste it for the duration of the backing track. I usually give 2 bars intro before the song starts, and mark the beginning of the track with a cymbal hit, so the drummer is reassured that he's playing in sync with the track (you can also do this for section changes if your drummer would like). Route this 'click track' to a bus, mono interleave, pan hard right and then route that bus to the Master. At rehearsal, adjust the level of each of the backing tracks relative to the live band, so that during a gig, the sound guy theoretically doesn't have to alter level once you get underway. Bounce each track down to an mp3. Load it onto an iPod and feed the output to a small mixer, and have the drummer operating the iPod and the mixer during a gig. This way he can stop and start tracks whenever he likes, and adjust the level of the backing track, if any, he gets in his headphone feed. Obviously, the right channel is the drummer's click track, the left the backing track - you may need a headphone amp to get enough level for your drummer. Just make sure that only the right channel of the backing track is fed from the drummer's mixer into FOH. I've found this to be fool proof. You're not relying on the sound guy to get it right, it's all controlled by the drummer, so he can start tracks whenever he likes. This also allows you to rehearse properly and integrate the tracks into your set smoothly. There are other ways, but this is, I think, you're safest bet, and that is usually the best option for small venue gigs! Good luck.
post edited by jamescollins - 2010/09/05 10:02:02
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2010/09/05 09:53:45
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In that case do as jamescollins suggests but I'm not sure I'd trust a live performance to a laptop on an internal sound card. Try it and see, I do use MIDI files for live work but play them back via a Roland Sonic Cell rather than my laptop.
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jamescollins
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2010/09/05 09:58:56
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Yep, that's why I've found it's best to have everything on an iPod - you're not reliant on a computer that way. Yes, a CD would theoretically sound better, but it's more hassle, and who's going to notice any degradation in sound quality of a backing track through a cheap PA turned up to 11?!! Keep it simple and fool proof.
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Guest
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2010/09/05 10:08:07
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jamescollins Yep, that's why I've found it's best to have everything on an iPod - you're not reliant on a computer that way. Yes, a CD would theoretically sound better, but it's more hassle, and who's going to notice any degradation in sound quality of a backing track through a cheap PA turned up to 11?!! Keep it simple and fool proof. AFAIK you can use WAV files on an iPod so the only difference would be the output and there are cheap devices to sort out that.
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Lord Tim
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2010/09/05 12:12:00
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Yep, we also use the iPod with click in one channel / backing track in the other method. Works great, although they can be a little fiddly to kill if for some reason the band slips out of time with the sequence. We're about to trial using an eeePC running some kind of software (likely SONAR) so there's a visual cue where the song is up to so the drummer can make a better judgment call of when to kill the sequence, and it's just a case of hitting the space bar rather than trying to find a pause button in the middle of a drum groove. In case you didn't have this bit figured out, you'd run a splitter from the 3.5mm out - one going the headphones/in-ears where the left and right are bridged so you get the click channel in both ears (if the drummer prefers - ours does, some would be fine with one), and send the other side to a DI to go into a stage box. I tell you what, this is a life-saver for a 4-piece band trying to recreate songs on an album that have orchestras and choirs and dozens of layers of guitars in a live setting. I dunno if we'd have the budget to hire all of those people in ever gig!
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nprime
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2010/09/05 12:16:12
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My only concern would be this: Some drummers can do this and some can't. Otherwise you have received good technical advice here.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2010/09/05 12:26:53
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Yep, that's why I've found it's best to have everything on an iPod That's what many single acts use BTW, You can use lossless compressed audio files... so the fidelity can be pretty good. (Once it's fed thru the PA, small differences in fidelity are much harder to hear.)
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aikiguy
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2010/09/06 12:14:13
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Jamescollins has said it all about right. I agree with him as well that using an i-Pod (or some other MP3 player) is the best way to run your tracks. They're reliable and for not a lot of money you can buy two MP3 players, using one as a back-up. I've heard all kinds of horror stories about computers being used on stage to run tracks when tey al of a sudden crash or freeze up or some otherwise catastrophic error occurs. The MP3 player is virtually foolproof. nprime also has a good point that not all drummers seem to able to play along to the MP3 (I think that's what he's saying??) so it does require some practicing to get it right. At least in my experience anyways. Something else to consider when running tracks..... We purchased a cheap Nady four pack wireless in ear monitor system. The whole band has the click in their ear when we run tracks . This is handy when you have songs that have instruments but no drums. Using the ear monitors, the drummer doesn't need to keep time for the band on the hi-hat or with stick clicks or anything. Works like a charm for us, but you do have to fiddle a bit to get used to it if you're not too experienced playing to a click track. Good luck with your efforts.... Aikiguy, www.backing-tracks-for-bands.com
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johnnyexo
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2012/06/11 15:26:04
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I have the backing tracks to the left and have built a click track to the right. How do I bounce these 2 tracks into one wav files from a cwk file? TIA
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Playing Gigs with backing tracks AND a drummer (metronome in drummers ears only)
2012/06/11 16:13:48
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Simply export them normally to a stereo wav. If the other is panned hard left and the other one hard right, that's how they'll be in the exported wav. Your explanation " I have the backing tracks to the left and have built a click track to the right" sounds as if you had used a stereo track, but as you mention two tracks, I assume you have two mono tracks as you should.
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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