XLR cable

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alexoosthoek
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2010/09/12 18:40:17 (permalink)

XLR cable

Is phantom power going to work with a XLR snake about 50 meters long?

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    Butch
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/12 19:45:22 (permalink)
    Yes.

    Butch
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    alexoosthoek
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/12 20:00:45 (permalink)
    Thanks Butch.

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/12 20:58:29 (permalink)
    The capability of your appliances phantom power supply will effect the limits as well. I agree with Butch and will add that 50' powered cabled runs are routine day in day out stuff for my work.

    I have a concern about phantom power specs... many devices do not provide adequate phantom power current capability. IMO, disciplined sound techs will endeavor to learn the power specs of the various phantom power supplies that they work with so that they can augment the supply if required.

    In any event 1 mic on a 50 foot cable is no problem on just about any modern gear, but 8 phantom powered mics on a 8 in sound card can be a big problem on modern gear... check your specs for max current draw at 48vDC... if your gear doesn't have that spec... call the service dept and find out what that spec is... then compare it to the needs of your mic(s)

    all the best,
    mike


    #4
    Rbh
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/12 23:34:36 (permalink)
    50 meters is closer to 162 '. You will have some increased resistance on a wire that long, But if it's high quality and gauged correctly you'll probably be ok.

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    #5
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/12 23:55:37 (permalink)
    oh, meters... I missed that part.

    Well, I can report that I have a pair of 120' cables made of star quad that I use with phantom powered mics... and they work well.

    best regards,
    mike


    #6
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/13 09:15:34 (permalink)
    Our church uses condensers on the choir. the wire run is  easily over 200' perhaps more, and they work just fine.

    The voltage drop is a function of the resistance of the wire (due to distance), the voltage (48v), and most important the current draw of the device.  E=IxR

    Since most mics use extremely low currents, and do not require exactly 48 volts to work,  the distance is not generally an issue.  Most electronics circuits will function perfectly well at 10% to 15% and at times even lower from the rated voltage.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2010/09/13 09:17:12

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/13 17:16:10 (permalink)
    As an example; if the mic says Neumann on it's likely that the spec is 48vDC +/- 4vDC.

    If the mic is transformerless it probably draws between 3-6ma.

    44-52vDC is the range where Neumann feels you will enjoy the quality they designed into their circuit. If the voltage sags the current increases. A distortion sets in. You may never notice the slight degradation of sound... but you will also never know how good the sound could have been.

    I only point this out to serve as an example of how every sound tech should endeavor to know the specs of both their microphones and their phantom power supplies.

    Here's an example; My MOTU 896HDs will only power 2 to 4 of Neumanns inexpensive TLM103s at the spec Neumann publishes. MOTU on the other hand doesn't publish their power supply spec... you have to write and ask Magic Dave.

    all the best,
    mike


    post edited by mike_mccue - 2010/09/13 17:18:26


    #8
    johnnyV
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/14 15:21:11 (permalink)
    Example Could not power a pair of condensers that were at end of 150' snake + 25' of cable with my pathetic M audio fast track pro. Had to patch through the house mixer.

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    #9
    rumleymusic
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/14 15:29:30 (permalink)
    I routinely power condensers using standard mackie mixer preamps through cable lengths of over 300'.  The power should not be blocked unless there is another piece of equipment in the path.   You should be able to go over a thousand feet with no major problems.   
    #10
    johnnyV
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/14 16:30:04 (permalink)
    You should be able to go over a thousand feet with no major problems.  

    I don't think so, read guitar hackers post for facts re voltage drop over distance...
    I'd sure hate to be mixing a band from 1000' away anyhow...
    Was that in Hitchhikers Guide the sound man was on the moon ?

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/14 16:50:10 (permalink)
    FWIW, my first Mackie 1604 was the unit that taught me that M.I. grade manufacturers will sell a 16 XLR input while advertising the phantom power feature... but they only provide enough current at 48vDC +/- 4vDC to power, IIRC, 5 Neumann transformerless microphones.

    Another thing to note... when a inexpensive condenser mic manufacturer specs 12vDC thru 52vDC phantom power capable... they are usually not elaborating on the next obvious questions. Is that capability coming at the expense of headroom in the on board preamp circuit... or is it using a on board voltage regulator which wastes energy and exasperates the problem of insufficient supply for all the other mics.

    Stuff to consider... if you care to consider it.

    all the best,
    mike


    #12
    alexoosthoek
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/15 15:25:16 (permalink)
    Thanks guys :-), sound card will be a M audio fast track ultra, if that's any help.

    The CHB
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:XLR cable 2010/09/15 19:35:06 (permalink)
    I have heard that a low impedence mic signal will go much further than 1000' on a balanced line, but I also think they were talking about dynamic mics.... the condensor mic might be a different story as far as the working distance, and yeah...ohms law for current, voltage and resistance do apply.

    The variables are the resistance of the wire which varies with wire size, and the load the mic places on the voltage supply.

    The voltage/current specs that come with any piece of equipment are basically "ideal range" voltages. To get the best operating specs, you should not exceed the envelope in either direction...however... in the real world, you can exceed the limits...I wouldn't want to go to much higher, but often, with most equipment, going lower, the mic will still work. It will not be functioning in it's optimal range and the distortion, and other issues that will arise, as Mike pointed out above will become more evident.

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