ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:BUSING QUESTION
2010/09/19 14:34:02
(permalink)
TracePercussion Lance ....I dont care what ba_midi says about ya! hahahjajajahaha me neither. hahahaha! ..listening to your site player now BA. neato! ...Osmosis sounds ****in. get that chick from cirque du solei to sing on top of that one. Well thanks a lot TP :) Actually I've been working on some TV cues for a music supervisor (he's doing some major shows) so I haven't had time to update my site. Some of the stuff there is oooold now, and I think my chops have gotten a lot better, so I really need to spend time updating the files, etc. But thanks for the compliments - very much appreciated!
|
montezuma
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2520
- Joined: 2004/10/07 03:44:28
- Location: Australia
- Status: offline
Re:BUSING QUESTION
2011/10/28 18:16:20
(permalink)
What's the difference between having a track SENT to a bus from its OUTPUT...as opposed to INSERTING a SEND to a bus? Is it that you can have 2 INSERTED sends and therefore you can send that track to 2 different busses? AND that with INSERTING sends onto the track you can manipulate the level sent and its panning? Is that it basically? Is it common to leave all OUTPUTS of each track sent to the Master Bus? Or to a bus that you DON'T want/ need to control level/ pan? But then again...you CAN control level using the track fader if the track is sent to a bus via its OUTPUT send. So...back to the question...INSERTING a send to a bus...is that merely useful for sending to more than one bus? thanks
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:BUSING QUESTION
2011/10/28 18:40:45
(permalink)
This should really be a new thread, and I hope I'm not being to basic, given your post count, but... The short answer is that sends are most often used to add an effect in parallel with the dry output of the track to the Master bus, and especially when you want different tracks to have different levels of the same effect applied. If you assigned the outputs to the bus, they'd all have to be affected by the same amount, based on the wet-dry mix of the effect. Sends allow you to set the effect to 100% wet, and control the wet/dry mix for each track individually with send levels.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:BUSING QUESTION
2011/10/28 18:47:27
(permalink)
montezuma What's the difference between having a track SENT to a bus from its OUTPUT...as opposed to INSERTING a SEND to a bus? Is it that you can have 2 INSERTED sends and therefore you can send that track to 2 different busses? AND that with INSERTING sends onto the track you can manipulate the level sent and its panning? Is that it basically? Is it common to leave all OUTPUTS of each track sent to the Master Bus? Or to a bus that you DON'T want/ need to control level/ pan? But then again...you CAN control level using the track fader if the track is sent to a bus via its OUTPUT send. So...back to the question...INSERTING a send to a bus...is that merely useful for sending to more than one bus? thanks Here's the simple answer: Sending to an AUX (inserting a send to a bus) makes a COPY of the signal from the track. The OUTPUT of a track is a direct destination of the signal itself. So you can send the output of a track to the master bus, for example, but also send a "copy" of its signal to a bus for other processing.
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re:BUSING QUESTION
2011/10/28 19:31:47
(permalink)
It seems that people that have experience using a full featured, large mixing console easily get the concept , and those who have only used the virtual variety can be easily confused. Download and read the block diagrams for a real mixer and you might get the picture.
|
montezuma
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2520
- Joined: 2004/10/07 03:44:28
- Location: Australia
- Status: offline
Re:BUSING QUESTION
2011/10/28 20:40:03
(permalink)
If I send a track's output to a bus I can still control wet/ dry with that tracks fader. Is that right?
|
montezuma
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2520
- Joined: 2004/10/07 03:44:28
- Location: Australia
- Status: offline
Re:BUSING QUESTION
2011/10/28 20:43:32
(permalink)
brundlefly If you assigned the outputs to the bus, they'd all have to be affected by the same amount, based on the wet-dry mix of the effect. Couldn't you change the amount by changing the tracks fader? I could send a vocal, guitar and bass all to one bus via output sends...but on each of those tracks I don't have to have the fader at 0db...they can be -10db, -28db etc right? So wouldn't it be that they don't have to be affected by the same amount?
|
mixsit
Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
- Total Posts : 789
- Joined: 2004/04/30 11:04:24
- Location: CathouseSound
- Status: offline
Re:BUSING QUESTION
2011/10/30 00:37:12
(permalink)
montezuma brundlefly If you assigned the outputs to the bus, they'd all have to be affected by the same amount, based on the wet-dry mix of the effect. Couldn't you change the amount by changing the tracks fader? I could send a vocal, guitar and bass all to one bus via output sends...but on each of those tracks I don't have to have the fader at 0db...they can be -10db, -28db etc right? So wouldn't it be that they don't have to be affected by the same amount? You need to get clear that assigning a track's output to a bus is for placing a second layer of level control after the track's fader level. (so let's not call it a 'send', that's confusing things) This 2nd bus primarily is used so you can group the mixed signals (mix' being each of their track fader levels) from several tracks under one control. It is clearer (more specific) to call this a Sub Group, (or if you like a 'sub mix control). This control point is in series with the track(s). You could have an effect inserted in this sub mix point, but the track fader(s) would still control their total level(s) and they would all have the same wet/dry level- via the inserted 'fx's mix control. A 'send (AKA 'AUXiliary Send') is adding a branch off of the track. Now that track signal is going to two places. These are parallel paths. The place were all the track 'sends' land is a bus- in this case an Effects Bus. Yes it is a sub group control point as well –but of the parallel paths from each of the tracks. Now we have master control points for two sub mixes. One is the main dry (sub) mix, the other an overall effects wet/dry level. The Effects Bus's fader level (with say a verb set 100% wet), blended with the dry level from the Sub Group is now the overall 'reverb wet/dry control in your main mix. And each track's send level is the 'how wet is this track'.
Wayne Smith Part time long time.. CathouseSound Mother Ships - StudioCat DAWs Portals - RME
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:BUSING QUESTION
2011/10/30 02:03:21
(permalink)
montezuma brundlefly If you assigned the outputs to the bus, they'd all have to be affected by the same amount, based on the wet-dry mix of the effect. Couldn't you change the amount by changing the tracks fader? I could send a vocal, guitar and bass all to one bus via output sends...but on each of those tracks I don't have to have the fader at 0db...they can be -10db, -28db etc right? So wouldn't it be that they don't have to be affected by the same amount? No , because you'd be lowering the overall level of the dry signal in the mix along with the effect level. So, for example, if the bus had a reverb on it at say 15% wet, you'd still have a signal with 15% reverb coming out of that bus, the whole track would just be that much quieter. Sends allow you to mix tracks independently of how much signal is sent to another bus, though it's usual to have sends be Post-fader, so once you've got the send level where you want it, the level sent to an FX bus remains proportional to the dry level sent to the Master as you change the output fader level. The one situation in which you would assign the output of a track to a bus instead of using a send is when you are using a dynamic or tonal effect that you want to affect 100% of the signal from several tracks assigned to the bus (e.g. drums or vocals). These are so-called "insert" effects, because they are inserted inline with the signal, and affect the entire signal, as opposed to "send" effects on a parallel path that only receive a portion of the dry signal.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|