jimmyrage
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Shure sm7b upper mid niose
Is anyone else getting an upper midrange noise from a sn7b? Kind of a screeching noise around 4k. I,ve tried a couple of different pres. I think that maybe the mike is a little over sensitive in that range.
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skullsession
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/07 13:08:45
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I've never had a problem with mine.
The noise is present when you pull up a fader even if there is no talent in front of the mic?
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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Ron Vogel
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/07 14:05:10
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It depends on what your source is, and of course mic placement. I didn't care for the SM7B, as I needed a multi-purpose mic...and the SM7B is kind of a one-trick pony. I sold an AT4050 to buy an SM7B and an MXL V67G to add more vesitality to my mic set-up...however it was the exact opposite for me. I was able to coax the sound I wanted out of the SM7B with a little work...however I was hoping for LESS work to get a good sound, and sold it promptly after finishing the project I used it on, and bought another AT4050! SM7B, SM57, MXLV67G: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9181089 AT4050, SM57: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9421057
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skullsession
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/07 16:52:18
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Ron.... Perhaps the problem was the pony.  I use mine almost exclusively on my own vocal. I won't use anything else. But....it also sounds GREAT on a bass cab. Works well on snare...especially about 12 inches away or so. Works wonderfully as a mid-room drum mic. Works in a pinch on a guitar cab. But the 4050 IS a damn good mic....so I can see why you'd want it back.
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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Ron Vogel
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/07 17:55:39
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I know, I know...It's not a bad mic per se...but it does have it's own sound...which without a variety of pre's can be an issue. I got a pretty good acoustic sound out of it...however, it was A LOT of work...and that was the main issue I had with it. On vox it was OK, but it was missing some detail (which is good on some vox), but I wanted that detail for different vocal styles. On guitar cabs it was fine, but I can coax a decent enough sound out of my SM57 to not think about the sm7b enough. I can see it working for bass cabs, I did use it mixed with a DI for the bass.
It does need a touch more gain than most mics, so the OP may just be hearing distortion from the upper gain level of his mic pre.
The 4050 is a great mic, it can sound a bit plasticky but workable. Kind of a poor man's U87.
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jimmyrage
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/08 05:32:52
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It's like a low pitched sibilance. Noise floor levels are low and actually the mic sounds great most of the time. The problem is just on certain phrases. I've only used it on one singer so far on 3 different songs. The 1st song was problem free but the noise was present in the other 2. Also used it on a 50 watt Marshall combo on 4 with no problem. Tried it on a snare and a kick also with no problems. Sounds simular to a MD421 on drums.
Both switches on the back are set flat. The singer has a very powerful voice and may be getting a bit close, but I would think the instruments would have caused more of a problem than the singer. All levels going in look good ( no overs ).
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skullsession
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/09 00:40:15
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There's no way a singer is going to overdrive that mic. Just no way.
Sorry...but what the heck do you mean by "low pitched" sibilance?
Are you SURE there's not a compressor setting that's bringing out this problem?
Maybe you can post a clip....that might be easier to help diagnose.
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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jimmyrage
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/09 05:41:41
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It's not a low pitched sibilance. It is lower than the normal condensor mic silibance that I'm used to dealing with. Kind of a upper-mid ring. I didn't use a compressor on the last thing I recorded so that shouldn't be the cause. I do have to run pres. higher than with other mics . I'm pretty sure nothing is in the red but it's possable that on loud parts he could have overdriven the pre. I try to watch for that but could have missed something. It's intermittant, not in the whole song. I've also tried to keep levels a little lower than normal. The mic took a bit af a spill a while back ( landed on a carpeted floor) but I don't think that caused the problem. I would like to have another one to compare it to. I'll try to post a sound clip soon, if I don't figure it out. I bought it used but it looked to be in exelent condition.
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jimmyrage
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/09 08:47:17
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/09 10:38:21
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I just listened and can hear the noise you describe. two things that come to mind 1) It sounds like an over driven under powered low head room preamp. Maybe a I.C. design? What's the input impedance on that preamp? It may not be the preamp your mic is plugged into... it may also be a preamp or line amp in your converter. Or maybe your preamp is built into your converter and for all intents and purposes they are one and the same thing. What gear are you using? 2) I don't really know how to put this politely so I'll just be candid and honest. The singer does not appear to be TRYING to sing... and the results speak for it's self. If he gave it an attempt to sing and create some smooth tonality... your preamp may not sound so tortured. I don't know if this guy is a good singer or a bad singer... he hasn't really started singing in that clip. Maybe it's a style thing. FWIW, I wouldn't expect that you'll see, what I am referring to as an over driven signal, on your meters. This distortion is happening far too quickly and is too frequency specific to be displayed on your meters. This is a case where you'll just need to trust your ears. Capture with less gain and smooth the transients over later with a nice compressor plug in and then boost the track into your mix. best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2010/10/09 10:46:00
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jimmyrage
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/09 13:00:05
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I running through a Presonus Eureka into Mackie converters (Oynx 1640 ), plenty of headroom. I've also tried another pre. with the same results. The singer actually is very good at what he dose ( kind of a Joe Cocker blues type). You'd have to hear more to tell. He's not causing the particular problem. I'm mainly wondering if I have a defective/damaged mic. I have a Senn. MD-421 which should be simular that I was planning to compare it to.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/09 19:47:19
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Now that we know what you are running through... I'd say you're running out of headroom at that frequency for sure.
Just turn the gain down and sneak the singer through then push it up in post.
best regards,
mike
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/09 20:57:51
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The presonus eureka has a GREAT sound. I use it. You have to be careful not to clip on the way in. Make sure you have plenty of room before clipping by turning the preamp down and keeping the output at 12 oclock, or for an obnoxious singer, even trim the output to somewhere a little before 12 oclock. I rarely have my preamp past 9 oclock when recording anybody including myself. If youre recording in 24 bit, you dont need a huge signal. Clean, non distorted/non clipping signal is way better than a really thick signal with clips. This is the beauty of 24 bit, and, lower preamp level= less background noise
post edited by Lanceindastudio - 2010/10/09 20:59:11
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/09 21:00:38
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Also, if the onyx has a preamp where you are plugged in, make sure it is all the way down to 0
If all these things dont help, something in your chain is bad- and swapping mics is one of the best ways to check if that is the problem of course.
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jimmyrage
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/10 05:50:18
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Lanceindastudio
The presonus eureka has a GREAT sound. I use it. You have to be careful not to clip on the way in. Make sure you have plenty of room before clipping by turning the preamp down and keeping the output at 12 oclock, or for an obnoxious singer, even trim the output to somewhere a little before 12 oclock.
I rarely have my preamp past 9 oclock when recording anybody including myself.
Thanks for the info. I just checked my settings on the eureka and they were at 8 oclock on the gain and 1 oclock on the master. I don't think the eureka is the problem. It's always been problem free in the past. Sounds really good as a DI for bass or clean guitar as well. Had the same problem going through another pre. also. I'm going to be troubleshooting later today swapping cords changing settings and trying other mics. Just curious, do you ever change your impedance setting or use the saturate feature?
post edited by jimmyrage - 2010/10/10 05:53:10
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/10 06:08:38
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I dont use the saturate. Messed with the impedance some but it seems to work fine turned all the way down counter clockwise for everything fine.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/10 08:27:16
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Op, I'm just gonna says this one more time before I become a complete pest... it is not a problem... it's the sound of an underpowered Integrated Circuit loosing it's headroom momentarily as all the power available to it is sucked up to get past a transient. It is frequency specific and exasperated by the brute force vocal technique you are recording.
Heck, some people actually like the sound of an underpowered IC circuit... that's why most designers that work with that technology don't put big beefy expensive power supplies in that grade of gear. Most folks like it, don't care, or work around the power limitation.
Just use the gear to it's best advantage.
You are right... you are hearing analogue clipping... turn it down or step back from the mic.
The fact that this mic is hotter in a particular frequency than some other you have at you disposal doesn't have to make it a problem.
all the best,
mike
Also, If that unit has a impedance switch... you might want to learn if you are just simply switching thru a bridge of resistors or actually switching the input impedance.
A 150ohm dynamic mic will sound nice bridged into 1500ohm. Electronic mics like condensers can benefit from much higher impedance. Sometimes a dynamic mic really opens up and gets "musical" when it see the ideal impedance. For example; I have a EV RE20... it's a great mic but if you plug it into a servo balanced input like say for example one of my Mackie boards it sort of sounds adequate but bored. If I plug the very same mic into an old vintage Ampex radio booth mixer that I have in the rack... the one with the custom wound, just for a RE20, input transformer (that's actual impedance... not make believe impedance) the mic opens up and sounds like a hi-fi microphone that is eager to transmit transients.
It's a remarkable difference... and it will not show up if you simply pad down your input signal with resistance and call it impedance.
Anyways, good luck... I think the good news is that you are diligent enough to want to track down that sound character which is disturbing you.
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jimmyrage
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/10 10:00:07
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mike_mccue
Op, I'm just gonna says this one more time before I become a complete pest... it is not a problem... it's the sound of an underpowered Integrated Circuit loosing it's headroom momentarily as all the power available to it is sucked up to get past a transient. It is frequency specific and exasperated by the brute force vocal technique you are recording.
Heck, some people actually like the sound of an underpowered IC circuit... that's why most designers that work with that technology don't put big beefy expensive power supplies in that grade of gear. Most folks like it, don't care, or work around the power limitation.
Just use the gear to it's best advantage.
You are right... you are hearing analogue clipping... turn it down or step back from the mic.
The fact that this mic is hotter in a particular frequency than some other you have at you disposal doesn't have to make it a problem.
all the best,
mike
Also, If that unit has a impedance switch... you might want to learn if you are just simply switching thru a bridge of resistors or actually switching the input impedance.
A 150ohm dynamic mic will sound nice bridged into 1500ohm. Electronic mics like condensers can benefit from much higher impedance. Sometimes a dynamic mic really opens up and gets "musical" when it see the ideal impedance. For example; I have a EV RE20... it's a great mic but if you plug it into a servo balanced input like say for example one of my Mackie boards it sort of sounds adequate but bored. If I plug the very same mic into an old vintage Ampex radio booth mixer that I have in the rack... the one with the custom wound, just for a RE20, input transformer (that's actual impedance... not make believe impedance) the mic opens up and sounds like a hi-fi microphone that is eager to transmit transients.
It's a remarkable difference... and it will not show up if you simply pad down your input signal with resistance and call it impedance.
Anyways, good luck... I think the good news is that you are diligent enough to want to track down that sound character which is disturbing you.
So you're saying that the input signal somewhere in the chain is being overdriven? I've been trying to watch for that during but could have missed something. I will try that, even though my levels going into Sonor are already lower than normal. As for the selectable impedance, I couldn't tell you how it's wired or anything of that nature. Only that it's a 5 pos. switch ( which makes me think that it dose run through resistors) with settings between 50 and 2500. I've always used 150 since thats the impedance of most of the mics I run through it. I Googled it earlier and every review I found recromended using the 2500 setting. What are your thoughts there? Thanks for the advise, by the way.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/10 15:08:51
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Yes, I am saying somewhere along the input signal chain some preamp or buffer amp stage is getting squashed.
That's what it sounds like to me. FWIW I have several Mackie and used one all last week on the job... the soud seems fairly familiar.
re. impedance: the idea is to create a "bridge". Some people use the term matched when they usually mean something like "well suited to work together".
Their is a basic engineer guideline that any bridge should be at least a 1:5 ratio and usually a 1:10 ratio is recommended. The idea is to consider the output impedance of your microphone... Dynamics are often 150ohm... I haven't looked up your SM7b... and multiply that by ten... 1500 or even the 2500 you mention is a great starting point. That's certainly closer to what Shure's mic designers expected you to hook up to. when they made the mic.
If you want to get some unexpected results characterized by wild swings in frequency response... you can actually load down your mic by literally "matching" the impedance... for example a 150ohm mic hooked up to a 150ohm preamp input is probably going to create undesired results. The idea is for the voltage coming off the mic to look into enough impedance that the voltage remains representative of the input signal. If the voltage is simply being sucked off the mic because their is no back pressure,so to speak, then the mic will loose it's ummph and do weird things.
best regards,
mike
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/10 15:50:41
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That explains why all my mics seem to be fine going in. The impedance on my eureka is at 2500.
I think I have changed it once or twice for a particular guitar but it is always at 2500 for the mics.
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RLD
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/11 10:55:46
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This is from the Shure site on the SM7B... Microphone impedance rating is 150 ohms (150 ohms actual) for connection to microphone inputs rated at 19 to 300 ohms. I'm curious as I have this mic as well. My GAP 73 preamp has two impedance setting, 300 and 1200. While the 300 setting would be fine, the 1200 setting is "technically" better?...or is this a use your ears and whatever sounds best?
post edited by RLD - 2010/10/11 12:21:20
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jimmyrage
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/11 12:28:44
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RLD
This is from the Shure site on the SM7B...
Microphone impedance rating is 150 ohms (150 ohms actual) for connection to microphone inputs rated at 19 to 300 ohms.
I'm curious as I have this mic as well.
My GAP 73 preamp has two impedance setting, 300 and 1200.
While the 300 setting would be fine, the 1200 setting is "technically" better?...or is this a use your ears and whatever sounds best?
Yeah! I saw that also. Most of my voc. mics are rated at 150 ohms, Which is why I've always used that setting.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/11 17:40:50
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When Shure says:
"Impedance: Microphone impedance rating is 150 ohms (150 ohms actual) for connection to microphone inputs rated at 19 to 300 ohms."
I believe the idea that Shure is trying to convey is that you should hook the microphone up to a preamp that has an input suitable for a microphone that has an output between 19-300ohms. A preamp with a input impedenace of apprx 1500 ohms will do nicely.
In fact if you take a moment and looks at Shure's mixers you will see that they are specified like this:
"Designed for use with 19-600 ohm load, 1.2k ohms actual,"
The idea of bridging at a minimum 1:5 ratio, or a nominal 1:10 ratio ( with ratios beyond that favored in some cases ) is such a basic electronics concept that I doubt Shure imagined a question would come up when they described it from the differing, perhaps unfamiliar, perspective.
As audio techs it is incumbent upon us to know about impedance bridging... it's the very basis of understanding how it is possible to start a fire while over loading a power amp with a bad wiring job on the speaker system.
anyways....
best regards,
mike
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jimmyrage
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/13 04:49:52
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I tried the 2500 ohm setting with lower level settings and had the singer back off of the mic a bit. Got much better results but there is still just a touch of that sound at times. Also tried a SM fifty eight. Very similar but the SM7 has a slight mid low presence. It could be a Mackie characteristic. I'm going into a line in so I think I'm just using the converters and bypassing the pre. Anyway, what I'm getting now is at least usable. Actually I've noticed a similar problem in some of my overhead tracks in the past (usually on cymbal crashes) , but never on vocal tracks where I used a LDC. Only the normal sibilance associated with a condenser.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Shure sm7b upper mid niose
2010/10/13 07:10:37
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It seems like you have attentive "ears"... just keep up the good work ad you'll end up with some tracks that you really like!
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