Hey Janet,

To have PLAY automatically set incremental MIDI channels for loaded patches, click on the "Settings" button on the top left of the interface (you need to be in "Player" mode, not "Browser" mode) and click on the "Other" tab in the window that opens up.  Check the "Automatic Increment" radio button below where it says "MIDI Channel Assignment".  Click "Apply" and restart PLAY (not sure if that's required but it doesn't hurt ;-).  Now each time you load an extra patch, a new MIDI channel will be assigned to it.


HTH

Janet,

After performing the previous steps, you should see individual articulations load with incremental MIDI channel numbers in PLAY.  This can easily be verified by looking at either the articulation name, which will have the MIDI channel number (in parenthesis) next to it, or in the main PLAY window (where it specifies the MIDI Channel on the left hand side).  You can also change them manually after loading the articulations using the same MIDI Channel box in the main window.

Now, to have Sonar switch between these articulation you need the Event Inspector.  This is where you'll select a group of notes and type in the corresponding MIDI channel in the Event Inspector for the articulation wanted (the ones you just loaded into PLAY and assigned a different MIDI channel each).  Try experimenting with something obvious, like String Staccato on Channel 1 and Horn Rips on Channel 2, just so you get the hang of it.  Hope that explains it a little bit better.

And don't worry about it.  We're here to help each other ;-)

Hey Cliff,

I'm not very familiar with the Aria Player, so I can only provide limited help.  However, I just watched a video on how to set up Aria in Samplitude and noticed that the Aria Player already has separate MIDI channel assignments on each instance.  So that saves you from having to assign those manually.  The other thing is that Garritan approaches articulations differently than other libraries, AFAICT.  I think some articulations are accessed through the Mod wheel and other MIDI CC controllers.  I'll give you the link to the video I was watching in the hopes that it will help you figure out how to use the Aria Player.  Notice he is using the common multi-out method.  Just ignore those steps and transfer the way he is loading the articulations to the method I've described.  here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d75oIxP-7Tk  (Skip to about 4:40)


HTH

As I mentioned earlier, I'm not familiar with the Aria player so I can't really help you as much as I'd like.  But if it is the way you describe, then I guess you'll have to use the Multi-out way.  I thought you could have the same interface shown in the video (with the multi-MIDI channels and all) in the Stereo version too.  But that doesn't seem to be the case from your description.

The other thing is that articulations are handle very differently in the Aria player from what I'm used to with PLAY.  You may have open a thread in the Sonar forum to increase your success of reaching the people who use the Garritan library.  I know Rbowser is one member who uses it, so you will have better luck contacting him.  Sorry I wasn't helpful, Cliff :-(

Take care!

TruckerMusic:

FWIW, though I don't feel competent with your Aria specifics ... I'd probably gamble that, even while you (and Janet) became competent with multi-articulations, per Jose's event inspector method,

... you'd still resort to running multi-instances of Kore or Play, to save RAM (as per Jose).  Furthermore, you'd:

1) Limit your active Synth-Rack palatte ... for CPU and sanity's sake.

2) Make dozens of in-active synths on your Synth-rack palatte as a starting point (or Sonar template), even as Jose taught me (... like, Jose has 20 or 30 in-active Play synths 'ready' to activate on his synth rack!)

3) Bounce tracks regularly ... I currently export-bounce them with reverb, compression, filters, EQ, and fx's into the Window's Desktop, which I find to be the only safe way to bounce tracks (another topic), due to Play bugs.

4) Reconsider the one-man-band MIDI paradigms.  3-Dog-Night sang "I just want to be a one-man-a-one-man band".  But Karaoke is my better friend for this.  And layered groove-loops are my best man! 
 
Which makes me ponder: "Do I really need to re-invent the wheel with multi-articulations ... or are groove layers most artists's workflow".

I still would like to solve the problem I have with having two (or More) synths in a project play when I strike a key on my keyboard.....Like I said when I am writing and I only want to have the synth I am playing do the playing it is most distracting..........

The first key to understanding this is that MIDI tracks have two channel assignments, Input and Output.

Normally, all Input channel assignments can be left as "Omni", which means the MIDI track can potentially record and/or echo MIDI arriving from your controller with any channel assignment. If the output channel ("Ch" field in the track header) is None, MIDI will be echoed with the same channel assignment it was received. Setting an output channel (a.k.a. "forced" MIDI channel) causes SONAR to change the channel of all incoming events to that forced channel as they are echoed to the output.

Now, assuming the MIDI track output is assigned to a simple mono-timbral synth that defaults to responding on any MIDI channel, the key to controlling what synth responds to your controller is whether the MIDI track for that synth has Input Echo enabled.

By default, the setting to Always Echo Current MIDI Track in Global Options is enabled, which means whatever track currently has focus will echo incoming MIDI to whatever soft synth is assigned to the Output. In this scenario, it really shouldn't be possible to hear more than one synth at a time, unless Input Echo is manually enabled on another MIDI track.

Personally, I prefer to leave Always Echo disabled, and manually enable Input Echo only on the track(s) pointing to the synth(s) I want to hear at the moment.

Another way to do it would be to enable Input Echo on all tracks, set a specific Input channel for each and change synths by changing the output channel on you controller. This is the old-school way of doing things; most people seem to prefer a workflow that doesn't involve changing channels on their controller, but I think it can be helpful to see different channels in the event list views for different tracks

Multi-timbral instruments can be handled by having multiple MIDI tracks pointing to the same synth, each with a unique forced output channel and Input set to Omni. Then, no matter what channel your controller is sending on, enabling Input Echo on a given track (either manually or by the Always Echo option) will give you only that one "voice" on the synth.

Your head must be spinning from everything that went before, but I hope this helps clear things up about the basic function of input and output channel assignments and the importance of Input Echo.

To Everyone who chimed in to help in this thread:
THANK YOU!
 I have been trying to solve these issues for a few years now!!!!
I worked a couple of hours on this last night and was successful! 

So I had to write it down to look at while I read Brundlefly's explaination of "How to" in the above post.

Also if you have been wondering how to do these same things as well Pleasefollow Brundlefly's suggestions in the above post....they are right on! I am sure that Jose knows this information but we just never got there...we were side tracked but this was fine cause it opened up a new thought process..so no disrespect to him .....

Here's how it all worked for me:
 First I wish to qualify that I integrated Jose's process of using a simple instrument track and multi-timbral synths. Loved it....
Brundlefly's explination above is very technical and one I have to keep reading again and again....it will sink in but for now I was still able to take the information he provided and make it work..

You will have to do some investagation on your own to get the configuration to work on your system but at least this may bring you very close.....or at least I really hope so...

also please forgive my spelling and some of my terminology....I am trying to be correct but it may not be 100% there....

Let me detail how this worked for me:

1. go to the Options menu and select "Global "
2. under the General tab look for the "Always Echo Current Midi Track" 
3. uncheck it

Now for the technique. I will use NI Kore 2 as my example synth.

for the Single insert of a synth
1. Insert menu
2. Soft synth
3. Kore 2

(Dialog Box appears)
4. check Simple Instrument Track
5. Check Synth Property's Page
6. select the OK Button

The Kore 2 Property Page should be open. Let's choose a Paino Patch / Program (what ever they call it)

Once selected it should play  ( you should hear sound) if not :
1.check your input out put routing. but it really should be automatically configured. the only thing you may want to do is route the output to a dedicated Buss in the Mixer View.
2. Activate your track echo button

Routing of Simple instrument Track:
1. I inserted a dedicated stereo Buss in the Mixer View. Let's label it Piano for this example
2.on the simple instrument track (which is both Audio and Midi) this is what you should see for routing:
Input: All inputs Omni
Output: I choose the dedicated Buss in the mixer labeled "Piano"

Now hit your record button on this track and you will be putting data down on your midi track.....Cool....

Now un-activate your track echo button and push play....you should  hear your recorded track play.

Now if you insert a second synth, let's use a bass patch as our example....follow all the steps as above......the only difference is you activate ONLY the bass track / Synth midi Echo button you are currently working on.....not both the piano and bass... if you did that BOTH  tracks would play when you palyed a note on your keyboare and you would confirm this by seeing the meters in both tracks register information when playing your keyboard....

since you only want one part to register at a time....only activate the midi echo button on the track you wish to work on....

By selecting only the bass track "echo" button you should hear only the bass track when playing your keyboard....

If you push play you should hear your Piano track play while you play your keyboard controller for the bass part .....if not then you need to double check all your steps.... 



OK Now let's move on to the Multi-Timbral synth insertion.....
Again lets use Kore 2 as our synth example.

1. You will need to know how to be able to configure Kore 2's midi channels.....to do this I would strongly suggest you go back to my origianl post and view the link to the You Tube video on how to do this.......because I cannot write out how to do it.....but by this viewing a couple minute video it will save a lot of time......so please do this step...it is ez..consider it your home work.... :-)

Ok this time we are going to use Kore 2, 2x16 (1 instance of Kore)
We will use 3 patches...
1. Piano (we will put or route to Midi Channel 1)
2. Bass  (we will put or route to Midi Channel 2)
3. Strings (We will put or Route to Midi Channel 3)

Insert dedicated stereo Busses in the Mixer view.
Label each accordingly....Piano, Bass Strings....
Optional but for this example we will use them.

OK, Now
1.Insert Menu
2.softsynth
3. Kore 2, 2 x 16
4. Dialog Box opens
5. Choose Track Folder (optional)
6.All stereo output
7. Synth Property Page
8. OK button

Kore 2's Property page should open up
Configure three instruments in Kore, one for each of our example patches, Piano, Bass and strings and rotue each to their own Midi Channel

In Sonar:
I label each Audio track and Midi track with the appropriate name...Piano Audio, Piano Midi, Bass Audio, Bass Midi etc.....

Now for the routing in Sonar:
Piano Audio Track:
Input : Kore 2, 2 x 16 out1 / out 1 R Stereo
Output : Piano (dedicated Stereo Buss in Mixer)

Piano Midi Track:
Input : Edirol FA 101 Midi In Channel 1 (this is my Audio interface)
Output : Kore 2, 2 x 16 1 (the 1 stands for the instance number of the synth)
Channel : 1

Bass Audio Track:
Input : Kore 2, 2 x 16 out 2 / out 2 R Stereo
Output : Bass (dedicated Stereo Buss in Mixer)

Bass Midi Track:
Input : Edirol FA 101 Midi In Channel 2 (this is my Audio interface)
Output : Kore 2, 2 x 16 1 (the 1 stands for the instance number of the synth)
Channel : 2

Strings Audio Track:
Input : Kore 2, 2 x 16 out 3 / out 3 R Stereo
Output : strings (dedicated Stereo Buss in Mixer)

Strings Midi Track:
Input : Edirol FA 101 Midi In Channel 1 (this is my Audio interface)
Output : Kore 2, 2 x 16 1 (the 1 stands for the instance number of the synth)
Channel : 3

Now like we did in the simplified instrument track using (activating / de activating) the Midi Track Echo button (and having everything configured correctly) we should be able to hear one part at a time and play one part at a time record one part at a time.
 
If you record a midi part for each of the individual tracks we inserted into Kore (Piano, Bass, Strings) and then pushed play in sonar we should hear the three individual parts coming from Kore....

If not then you need to go over your routing.......you may need to slightly tweak it from mine but this is how it worked for me.....


I really think Brundlefly for his expertise, Jose for his time and effort, Philip for getting others involved......and everyone else who lent a hand at trying....

If you have any questions I can try (no promisies cause I am still coming to grips with this as well) to answer to the best of my abilities......

But I am sooo Happy about this.....it is sooo Cool....
I even got a excellent idea for a tune out of this that I will be working on all week end I am sure......I am so stoked!!!!!

THANK YOU ALL

Clifford

Jose7822


Hey Cliff,

I'm not very familiar with the Aria Player, so I can only provide limited help.  However, I just watched a video on how to set up Aria in Samplitude and noticed that the Aria Player already has separate MIDI channel assignments on each instance.  So that saves you from having to assign those manually.  The other thing is that Garritan approaches articulations differently than other libraries, AFAICT.  I think some articulations are accessed through the Mod wheel and other MIDI CC controllers.  I'll give you the link to the video I was watching in the hopes that it will help you figure out how to use the Aria Player.  Notice he is using the common multi-out method.  Just ignore those steps and transfer the way he is loading the articulations to the method I've described.  here's the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d75oIxP-7Tk  (Skip to about 4:40)
 
 
Jose
As I suspected I was on the correct track with my answer to you about the Aria Player...
I asked the question over that the GPO forum and here was the reply I recieved...
Re: To Gary: Can instrument articualtions be loaded into the Aria Player

Hi Clifford,

You can do this to an extent with Aria, but because of the difference in design between GPO and EWQL, it won't be identical.

The EWQL orchestra has different patches for each playing technique: sustained, staccato, tremolo (strings), and to an extent, forte vs. piano. GPO simplifies a lot of this by using a single patch for sustains and staccato (using intelligent programming to adjust sound) and the same single patch for all dynamics (using the modwheel control to smoothly fade between layers). So, you don't need to have individual channels for each articulation-- they are handled by how long you make the note lengths and the modwheel data you place in the track.

The one spot where I think you could make use of this cool technique Jose describes is when you use overlay patches found in the brass. Overlay patches are meant to double up on the normal patches to add some beefiness and brassiness to the sound, so sculpting them directly on top of the normal instruments and using the channel switching would be extremely effective.

Hope this helps,
Reegs

But I still want you to know that I appreciate your response and help.....maybe next time!  But it was not a total loss I did learn something from this thread that I have wanted to know for a long while.....
 
Clifford


HTH