Yamaha 02R - Practical?

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fwrend
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2010/10/18 12:50:52 (permalink)

Yamaha 02R - Practical?

Not sure if anyone is still using one of these (not a lot of threads concerning it) but I came across one for cheap with the Meter bridge.  It has 4 TDIF cards which I don't need but those are changeable to ADAT which I can use.  My first thought was really just to turn a small profit.  But, it is kind of nice to have a digital board in my studio.  Would it be practical to keep it around?  Because of it's age and limitations, I'm hesitant to incorporate it and spend the time learning it.

Pros:
- 16 motorized faders
- plethora onboard effects processing per channel including
• Compressor
• Expander
• Gate/Ducking
• Soft and Hard Compander
- 96 scene memories
- could use it as monitoring device as well

Cons:
- expensive to repair if anything went wrong
- only 20 bit AD & DA though I probably would not use it for that
- word is it doesn't really work that well as a controller for Sonar

The other option I'm considering is using it at church to mix to video & webcast which would be ideal for the different styles of worship we do and provide a much better tool to control quality.

Any thoughts appreciated and how would you use it if you say keep it??
#1

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    AT
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/18 13:57:05 (permalink)
    Wrend,

    if the price is right it should be nice.  Maybe not as a controller but as the center peice of your studio.  It is nice to have the knobs and fingertip control for setting up monitoring for recording, etc.  And hardware dsp can be nice, too, if you can run 16 channel digital through it - is it 24 bit?

    Also, with a case it is portable and should work well at the church.  As an installation you can save most of what you need to do live work at a touch of a button.  As a live mixer for your own stuff you can save presets too.  Besides, it is cool to watch the faders snap to attention.

    I havent'much experience w/ them - I'm sure there are flaws, but in theory it should work pretty well in any of the above senarios.  If the price is right.
    @

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #2
    fwrend
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/18 14:59:23 (permalink)
    Thanks AT - yeah, my thoughts as well.  The version 2 OS is supposed to have incorporated 24 bit processing but it seems the AD & DA is still only 20 bit processing.  I'm a bit confused about that.  Here's the Brochure - see p. 4 & p. 9
    #3
    AT
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/18 18:04:02 (permalink)
    Yea, it looks like 24 bits internal but 20 bit conversion.  I guess it works at and sends out 24 bit.  W/ Adat you can skip that problem, but if you like the sound no reason you couldn't use it.  I (guess again!) SOnar would record or convert it to 24 bit so you would be good to go.  But I'd definately talk to someone who knows for sure before buying it for recording.

    Hopefully someone more knowledgable will chime in soon.

    @

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #4
    fwrend
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/18 18:07:38 (permalink)
    That's what I understand - and read that as long you stay all digital In/Out your okay.
    #5
    tarsier
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/18 18:09:03 (permalink)
    I use an 02R and under your "Pros" list, you forgot to mention the reverbs. I quite like them, and you get two reverb processors in the 02R. The reverbs alone are probably worth the price.

    Even the digital I/Os are limited to 20 bits. The documentation might say otherwise, but I've tested them (the ADAT, S/PDIF and AES digital I/Os) and they truncate the last four bits of their 24 bit output.

    The analog aux sends are kinda noisy.  The automation is great, but the faders are kinda rough feeling.

    It is a bit tricky to learn if you've never used a console like it, but just like Sonar, if you step through the "getting started" bit in the manual, you'll be fine.
    #6
    fwrend
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/18 18:21:34 (permalink)
    Great - thanks tarsier.  Yeah, I didn't want to get long winded with all the processing features. 

    Is yours version 2?  Not sure quite how this works but . . .

    Yamaha Quote
    Digital I/O
    V2 has added a 24 bit recording mode for those who do not have 24 bit recorders yet. It works by splitting the 24 bit signal into two 16 bit signals. One channel carries bits 1-16 and the other channel carries bits 17-24. When played back they are put back together to form the 24 bit signal. This will turn any 16 bit eight track recorder into a four track 24 bit recorder. Of course, you need 24 bit data from somewhere to make it work out, but more on this some other time.

    EDIT: quote is not verbatim but paraphrased by a Roger Nichols but I read it in Yamaha material somewhere.
    post edited by fwrend - 2010/10/18 18:25:48
    #7
    tarsier
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/18 18:36:42 (permalink)
    Yes, mine is a version 2.

    That 24-bits on 16-bit recorders feature is just like the old Rane Paqrat technique.  I wouldn't bother with it, it's more trouble than it's worth since it's only necessary if you have 16-bit digital recorders.  It takes two 16-bit tracks and stores one 24-bit track's worth of info on them. I can't really see the value in it nowadays since 24-bit recorders and interfaces are common.

    What would be really clever is if they split the 24 bit signal into a dithered 16 bit signal on one track and the remaining 8 bits plus the error bits on the other track. Then you'd be able to store your original 24 bit signal and also have a conveniently dithered 16 bit signal at the ready.  But I don't think anyone ever developed that.
    #8
    fwrend
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/18 18:55:35 (permalink)
    You're talking way over my head - I have a clue but really don't want to damage what's left :-)

    So, my question to you would be, if you had a choice today to obtain the O2R ($300) if there a benefit and would you put in the effort to incorporate it into your setup?
    #9
    craigfowler
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/19 00:09:49 (permalink)
    Wow - If you can get an 02R for $300, quit posting and start buying! For that price you'll find a use! Weren't they $6-7k back in the day?
    #10
    AT
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/19 00:54:08 (permalink)
    Yea, Wren, it is probably worth that just for the reverb and fx, even analog at 20 bits.

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #11
    fwrend
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/19 09:16:17 (permalink)
    Haha - Oh, I bought it - couldn't pass it up for $300.  I'm just debating whether to hang on to it or not.  If I keep it, I would probably invest in it a little more - get rid of the TDIF cards and replace them with a couple of ADAT and/or EAS/EBU cards.  I'm just not sure about the commitment of time, space, & money.  At 50, time is more & more precious!

    But you're right at $300, I'll count my blessings - thanks!
    #12
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/19 13:19:03 (permalink)
    But you're right at $300, I'll count my blessings - thanks!

     
    Seriously... that's an amazing deal!
    As long in the tooth as the 02R is... it's still a great piece of gear.
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #13
    johnnyV
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/19 16:07:44 (permalink)
    I have the 01V and it's from 1998. Still works great. The efx are actually the same chip as the old Yamaha SPX 900 which retailed for $900 each in those day.
    Careful with the Phantom power the switches are small and there's no warning light, I zapped a pre amp. There is a Yahoo users group dedicated to keeping these old board alive. They are your best source for quirky behavior or parts.
    This is for the 01v but there's also one for your board close buy on main page
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Yamaha01V/
    I call mine the swiss army knife of mixers.





    Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional
     Scarlett 6i6
    Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx
    Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedals
    Tascam Gear=  DR 40 - US1641 -
    Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's 
    i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1  home build
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    #14
    fwrend
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/19 16:33:42 (permalink)
    Thanks Jim & Johnny - kind of a no-brainer really.  I've just been researching how to get rid of the TDIF cards and picking up the ADAT and/or AES/EBU cards for it.  I've got the Lynx L22 with the ADAT daughter card and could also add the AES card if needed.
    #15
    johnnyV
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/19 18:49:07 (permalink)
    The good news is Yamaha stayed with the same format for those cards so there are lots of them around still. I seen an add for a new card the other day and dang if it didn't  look like it would fit in the old 01v!
    Try that user group, they have a buy and sell section there somewhere. It's a terrible format but you can connect with the community and see if someone will trade .

    Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional
     Scarlett 6i6
    Yamaha Gear= 01v - NSM 10 - DTX 400 - MG82cx
    Roland Gear= A 49- GR 50 - TR 505 - Boss pedals
    Tascam Gear=  DR 40 - US1641 -
    Mackie Gear= Mix 8 - SRM 350's 
    i5 Z97 3.2GHZ quad 16 Gig RAM W 8.1  home build
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    #16
    fwrend
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2010/10/20 10:13:37 (permalink)
    Thanks Johnny - found it
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    carisa
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2013/12/01 21:07:41 (permalink)
    Hello!  Do any of you know if the Yamaha 02R v2 supports Windows 7?  I'm considering buying one but need to make sure it has drivers avail...  Hope you all had a wonderful holiday.
    #18
    Cactus Music
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2013/12/02 00:05:53 (permalink)
    Digital boards don't use Audio drivers. They connect using either SPDIF, MIDI or the ADAT cards which your computer needs the matching PCI card which will then have the drivers. 
    My 01V intergrates with Sonar via SPDIF out to my interface. I could control the whole thing with MIDI ( ACT?) but see no use for this. I run my monitors through it for super easy routing and volume control. 
    I track most vocals and instruments through it via the SPDIF because of the compressors and processing available. It's like having $10,000 worth of rack gear in a box. 

    Johnny V  
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     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #19
    AT
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2013/12/02 00:37:27 (permalink)
    As Cactus sez you'll need an interface for the yamaha - and the interface has the drivers.  The 01V should have digital outs - you just need to match it up w/ your interface.  ADAT would probably be the best.  Lynx has pci cards w/ ADAT daughter cards, RME has several varieties, or you could get a FW interface w/ ADAT (my TC Konnekt has two ADAT in/outs).  I'm not sure what ADAT/USB interfaces are out there.
     


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    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #20
    Bonzos Ghost
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2013/12/04 16:08:50 (permalink)
    If the price is right, it's still very useful. Maybe not the greatest mic pres/conversion in the world by todays standards, but for plugging in a bunch of synths or something it would be fine. I'm still using a Yamaha 01V which is very similar that I bought 15 years ago. I only use it to plug in a bunch of my hardware synths - outputted through SPDIF to my RME. It's fine for that. Dead quiet, which is nice. I retired my analog board 'cause it wasn't dead quiet anymore. The analog board was more forgiving with respect to peak levels - digital isn't forgivng at all, plus it did impart a little something to the overall sound - whereas the Yamaha does not.
    #21
    brconflict
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    Re:Yamaha 02R - Practical? 2013/12/06 23:19:18 (permalink)
    Definitely see if you can locate some YGDAI(?) cards for cheap. Waves even provided their plug-ins for one. I still have my old AW4416, which came after the O2R, and it still works like new. The only thing I worry about is the belts for the motorized faders breaking. Best of luck!

    Brian
     
    Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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