vinski
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 300
- Joined: 2009/05/15 11:05:02
- Location: Kent, Great Britain
- Status: offline
Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
Hello, was gonna put this in software but it's a bit too quiet, and it is in the 8.5 environment, so......
...any-who, when I audition the MIDI files, either from toontrack or Steven Slate, within Ezplayer v1.0.5 through Kontakt 4 with the SSD samples loaded, it sounds like it's being played by a child and the timing is terrible. But when they are draged into the MIDI track in my project they play perfectly in time.
However, if I use Superior, auditioning is fine.
Any ideas y'all??
Pentium D 2.8, SP3 2GB Ram, Nvidia Geforce 8600 GT HP vs19e, Samsung Synchmaster 2032BW Edirol FA-66 Evolution MK-225C Sonar 8.3.1
|
vinski
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 300
- Joined: 2009/05/15 11:05:02
- Location: Kent, Great Britain
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/14 07:01:29
(permalink)
Pentium D 2.8, SP3 2GB Ram, Nvidia Geforce 8600 GT HP vs19e, Samsung Synchmaster 2032BW Edirol FA-66 Evolution MK-225C Sonar 8.3.1
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/14 07:30:00
(permalink)
vinski
Hello, was gonna put this in software but it's a bit too quiet, and it is in the 8.5 environment, so......
...any-who, when I audition the MIDI files, either from toontrack or Steven Slate, within Ezplayer v1.0.5 through Kontakt 4 with the SSD samples loaded, it sounds like it's being played by a child and the timing is terrible. But when they are draged into the MIDI track in my project they play perfectly in time.
However, if I use Superior, auditioning is fine.
Any ideas y'all??
Vinksi - your bump in on a SUnday morning (around um --- 6am NYC time - east coast time) --- it may take a while for others to chime in. But, I don't know the exact problem you're having because I only use "pre-made" loops as "sweeting", so to speak. But over time, I'v noticed I'm not *that* impressed with so-called "MIDI files." Nothing is that simple, just like the rest of life. So - what do you mean the "timing is terrible" ?? What tempo is the "original" in - and what tempo are you in? Are they groove clips or just MIDI data? (I may not answer until very late Sunday NYC time, btw) LO THis was my first night out of bed in almost 2 weeks (flu) .... So I'm a bit tipsy - but regardless, please explain as best you can what you mean ?
|
vinski
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 300
- Joined: 2009/05/15 11:05:02
- Location: Kent, Great Britain
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/14 08:00:29
(permalink)
ba_midi
vinski
Hello, was gonna put this in software but it's a bit too quiet, and it is in the 8.5 environment, so......
...any-who, when I audition the MIDI files, either from toontrack or Steven Slate, within Ezplayer v1.0.5 through Kontakt 4 with the SSD samples loaded, it sounds like it's being played by a child and the timing is terrible. But when they are draged into the MIDI track in my project they play perfectly in time.
However, if I use Superior, auditioning is fine.
Any ideas y'all??
Vinksi - your bump in on a SUnday morning (around um --- 6am NYC time - east coast time) --- it may take a while for others to chime in.
But, I don't know the exact problem you're having because I only use "pre-made" loops as "sweeting", so to speak.
But over time, I'v noticed I'm not *that* impressed with so-called "MIDI files." Nothing is that simple, just like the rest of life.
So - what do you mean the "timing is terrible" ?? What tempo is the "original" in - and what tempo are you in?
Are they groove clips or just MIDI data?
(I may not answer until very late Sunday NYC time, btw) LO
THis was my first night out of bed in almost 2 weeks (flu) .... So I'm a bit tipsy - but regardless, please explain as best you can what you mean ?
Hi Billy, my bump is about 10 days after the first post, no rush. Just trying to solve the 'problem'. I only use MIDI files to set the frame of the song, I'll go in and adjust everything after the arrangement is finalised, I know what you mean though. It's not just the UK that's covered in flu then? Just had it myself, without getting too involved, it's the aftermath that floors me coz it seems to re-instate my pericarditis....rubbish. Project tempo is 87bpm and EZPlayer tempo set to the same. They are the clips in the menu of EZPlayer. The top half of this image if you've never used EZPlayer.    In EZplayer when I audition clips with Superior everything is fine. Tempo matches, plays in time, great. So it works. When I have EZplayer set up to audition midi clips with SSD (Steven Slate is loaded into Kontakt, if you didn't know) it seems like the 'Humanize' settings have been set to extreme swing. Meaning that if it's a 4/4 beat, some of the hits will be way off time. Imagine, in the Piano Roll View, dragging all the hits in one bar left or right by 1/16th randomly. It sounds like a child who has never played the drums before just randomly hitting kit pieces. But, it's only when auditioning. So when I drag any given midi clip from EZplayer into my project in Sonar, it will play as it should. Hit's on time and where they should be. So it's ONLY when I audition grooves with SSD. Checked the humanize properties in SSD and they only relate to velocities and samples played, not timing. But they play fine from the MIDI track in the project. If it was these settings surely they would constantly be out. Not just when auditioning. Hope that's clearer, and I hope you recover fully soon Billy.
Pentium D 2.8, SP3 2GB Ram, Nvidia Geforce 8600 GT HP vs19e, Samsung Synchmaster 2032BW Edirol FA-66 Evolution MK-225C Sonar 8.3.1
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/14 08:08:54
(permalink)
Hi Billy, my bump is about 10 days after the first post, no rush. Just trying to solve the 'problem'. I only use MIDI files to set the frame of the song, I'll go in and adjust everything after the arrangement is finalised, I know what you mean though. It's not just the UK that's covered in flu then? Just had it myself, without getting too involved, it's the aftermath that floors me coz it seems to re-instate my pericarditis....rubbish. Project tempo is 87bpm and EZPlayer tempo set to the same. They are the clips in the menu of EZPlayer. The top half of this image if you've never used EZPlayer. In EZplayer when I audition clips with Superior everything is fine. Tempo matches, plays in time, great. So it works. When I have EZplayer set up to audition midi clips with SSD (Steven Slate is loaded into Kontakt, if you didn't know) it seems like the 'Humanize' settings have been set to extreme swing. Meaning that if it's a 4/4 beat, some of the hits will be way off time. Imagine, in the Piano Roll View, dragging all the hits in one bar left or right by 1/16th randomly. It sounds like a child who has never played the drums before just randomly hitting kit pieces. But, it's only when auditioning. So when I drag any given midi clip from EZplayer into my project in Sonar, it will play as it should. Hit's on time and where they should be. So it's ONLY when I audition grooves with SSD. Checked the humanize properties in SSD and they only relate to velocities and samples played, not timing. But they play fine from the MIDI track in the project. If it was these settings surely they would constantly be out. Not just when auditioning. Hope that's clearer, and I hope you recover fully soon Billy. Vinski - thanks for your well wishes. I hope you've recovered as well :) Hmm... I do have Ezplayer, but honestly I don't use it. I've almost never relied on pre-fabbed MIDI files to create for me. Not that there's anything wrong with doing that -- it's just not something that I enjoy. I LOVE playing - even the simplest of beats (Quarters on the Kick, upbeats on the Hi Hat) every time. To me it's kind of an organic thing lol. But seriously - it becomes "you" when it's done that way. But what you're describing definitely doesn't sound right. ARe there any updates to EZplayer perhaps? You (we) know how that goes LOL.... give it a week (or less or more) and there WILL be updates .... sigh. I've also learned that some MIDI files/grooves I've listened to depend on the host they were "delivered in." IOW, Kontakt based sample libraries expect to interact with it. They don't do as well "standalone" (ie, outside of Kontakt - as just one example). May I ask, though - why not just play the stuff yourself and then layer with some of the other options available? I know some "MIDI Files" can have serious good sh*t.... but so can WE, if you know what I mean ;)
|
vinski
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 300
- Joined: 2009/05/15 11:05:02
- Location: Kent, Great Britain
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/14 08:20:24
(permalink)
When you say 'play' do you mean in PRV or on an electronic kit?
If it's PRV then it's to do with time. It just takes too long to get something believable drawn up from scratch.
If it's the kit, then it's a) just don't have the room for one at the minute, although I'd love one. b) My playing abilities are limited. I could play a straight beat with some interesting fills, but playing something cool...no chance!! Would love to practice to improve, but like I say, no space for a kit.
EZPlayer updated all the way, Kontakt is too.
I was hoping someone could reply that had a similar setup running fine so I could confirm it was my user error, which I still believe till proven innocent!
Thanks for chiming in though Billy, always good to have more perspectives...and if anyone steals that song title, I'll sue!!!!!!
Pentium D 2.8, SP3 2GB Ram, Nvidia Geforce 8600 GT HP vs19e, Samsung Synchmaster 2032BW Edirol FA-66 Evolution MK-225C Sonar 8.3.1
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/14 08:26:27
(permalink)
vinski
When you say 'play' do you mean in PRV or on an electronic kit?
If it's PRV then it's to do with time. It just takes too long to get something believable drawn up from scratch.
If it's the kit, then it's a) just don't have the room for one at the minute, although I'd love one. b) My playing abilities are limited. I could play a straight beat with some interesting fills, but playing something cool...no chance!! Would love to practice to improve, but like I say, no space for a kit.
EZPlayer updated all the way, Kontakt is too.
I was hoping someone could reply that had a similar setup running fine so I could confirm it was my user error, which I still believe till proven innocent!
Thanks for chiming in though Billy, always good to have more perspectives...and if anyone steals that song title, I'll sue!!!!!! +
Vinski - yes I mean to actually PLAY the parts. I have NI's Maschine . It is SUCH a great tool. Many are fooled by the marketing I"m sure and it become kind of pigeon-hole. However, it is an instrument. Truly. The point being - if you can play, then just play. If playing parts is NOT your strong-suit, Ok. Then I understand wanting to use pre-fabbed stuff. But I would bet that if you have a feel for what you want, using some kind of trigger device/plugin (such as Maschine - or almost ANY MIDI controller) will get you there faster. Keep in mind, Sonar has a lot of great tools to help that. ONE example.... sometimes I play a "loose" piano part.... it ends up feeling good, but some notes are not spot-on. So I quantize, but use "50% strength" and "50% window" ( just one example) and it keeps all those little slurs I do yet still puts things in the pocket. Many MIDI files I've auditioned are a bit too robotic for my taste, frankly. Though they can also be "humanized" a bit - there really is something organic about musicians being musicians and just playing -- even if it's the same beat you did yesterday. IT just will be different because... welll, we, ARE human ;)
post edited by ba_midi - 2010/11/14 08:28:08
|
RogerS
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 330
- Joined: 2009/10/22 20:19:12
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/14 20:52:50
(permalink)
You can access your Steven Slate MIDI files directly from EZ Drummer. It works perfectly for me. In other words, leave out the extra step with Kontakt 4.
PE 8.5.3, Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, i7 920, GA-EX58-UD4P, 6gb Corsair DDR3, 2 x Barracuda 500gb, HIS Radeon GS-4670 Fanless 1gb DDR3, dual 24" monitors, Axiom 61, Korg Triton Pro, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, VG-99, Yamaha MSP5, Fostex PM0.5
|
vinski
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 300
- Joined: 2009/05/15 11:05:02
- Location: Kent, Great Britain
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/15 12:12:51
(permalink)
Hi Roger,
Thanks for the input but it's not that I have problems accessing the SSD midi files, that's all ok.
The problem lies with 'slackness' in playback of auditioning midi files (whether they be Steven Slate's, Toontracks, or anyone else's) with Steven Slate Drums.
It's impossible to leave out Kontakt because they are the host for Steven Slate Drums, you can't run them without it.
Pentium D 2.8, SP3 2GB Ram, Nvidia Geforce 8600 GT HP vs19e, Samsung Synchmaster 2032BW Edirol FA-66 Evolution MK-225C Sonar 8.3.1
|
RogerS
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 330
- Joined: 2009/10/22 20:19:12
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/15 20:07:10
(permalink)
Oops. I thought you were just trying to use the Steven Slate MIDI files that came with Session Drummer 3. Sorry.
PE 8.5.3, Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, i7 920, GA-EX58-UD4P, 6gb Corsair DDR3, 2 x Barracuda 500gb, HIS Radeon GS-4670 Fanless 1gb DDR3, dual 24" monitors, Axiom 61, Korg Triton Pro, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, VG-99, Yamaha MSP5, Fostex PM0.5
|
Norrie
Max Output Level: -58.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1665
- Joined: 2010/04/20 15:48:15
- Location: Scotland
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/15 20:24:17
(permalink)
vinski
When you say 'play' do you mean in PRV or on an electronic kit?
If it's PRV then it's to do with time. It just takes too long to get something believable drawn up from scratch.
If it's the kit, then it's a) just don't have the room for one at the minute, although I'd love one. b) My playing abilities are limited. I could play a straight beat with some interesting fills, but playing something cool...no chance!! Would love to practice to improve, but like I say, no space for a kit.
EZPlayer updated all the way, Kontakt is too.
I was hoping someone could reply that had a similar setup running fine so I could confirm it was my user error, which I still believe till proven innocent!
Thanks for chiming in though Billy, always good to have more perspectives...and if anyone steals that song title, I'll sue!!!!!!
Have you ever thought about geting one of Nano pads to play instead of a kit you can play it with your fingers very usefull and better than playing it on a midi controler I use my TD20 to play drum parts through SD2 and some times just drop in the odd beat with the mouse I plan to get a nano pad To do it instead of the mouse ive seen them and it works great :D Check it out its not that bad a price aswell http://www.dv247.com/comp...line-controller--60071 Digital village some times give them away with toontrack programs Any way back to your problem......... I Dont have EZ drummer But I am sure the pre set must be in Superior drummer aswell ? If you tell me what file it is I can load it in to what the other wynth you said was and see if I get the same problem if you like ? Norrie
SONAR X3c Producer Pro Tools 11 Allen & Heath GS-R24 M Adam A77x i7 4930K @ 4.4Ghz
|
Dave Modisette
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11050
- Joined: 2003/11/13 22:12:55
- Location: Brandon, Florida
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/15 22:26:28
(permalink)
The problem you are experiencing is likely because of latency. You have to remember that EZplayer is driving the playback of the sampler. So you have SONAR sending a midi sync to EZplayer and then out of the VST midi out and to your sampler so any latency is compounded. You have to have a really low audio latency setting to minimize this. So it's best to do your EZplayer work early in the process and then commit the midi to a dedicated midi track in SONAR. The reason Superior sounds tighter is that it eliminates one of the links and it's latency because the midi engine (for the audition) drives the Superior sampler directly within the program.
post edited by Mod Bod - 2010/11/15 22:31:10
|
vinski
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 300
- Joined: 2009/05/15 11:05:02
- Location: Kent, Great Britain
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/16 11:01:17
(permalink)
Norrie: Thanks for the advice. I was looking at these a while back, but now they've dropped to £3o each it's probably a must have!
I also think you've missed a step. I'm not using EZdrummer through any of this, it's EZPlayer with Steven Slate drums. Thanks though.
Mod Bod: That's how I am working. This is all at driver settings with either ASIO or WDM, makes no difference, while I'm laying down my initial drum track. Nothing else running at all. Just EZPlayer and Kontakt, No real hit on CPU.
Does anyone here have Steven Slate 3.5 and EZplayer? Can you link them and run them successfully?
I've sent emails to both Slate digital and Toontrack, hope they come up with something. I'll keep changing variables until I find the problem.
Thanks for the efforts guys and I'll keep it posted IF I find the cause and the solution.
Rock on.
Pentium D 2.8, SP3 2GB Ram, Nvidia Geforce 8600 GT HP vs19e, Samsung Synchmaster 2032BW Edirol FA-66 Evolution MK-225C Sonar 8.3.1
|
Norrie
Max Output Level: -58.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1665
- Joined: 2010/04/20 15:48:15
- Location: Scotland
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2010/11/16 12:10:27
(permalink)
Yeah man £30 for it is a good buy in my book :)
Sorry I picked you up wrong I thought it was ez drumer I hope you hear back from toontrack there normaly quick at geting back about problems :)
Norrie
SONAR X3c Producer Pro Tools 11 Allen & Heath GS-R24 M Adam A77x i7 4930K @ 4.4Ghz
|
relpomiraculous
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 525
- Joined: 2004/10/05 07:56:01
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2012/04/13 21:22:11
(permalink)
I have this exact problem with EZ Player and I know exactly what you are talking about. I will continue scanning threads to see if anyone knows the solution.
Sonar X2 64 bit - Win 7 Pro 64 bit - Intel Core i7 870 - 8 gigs of ram - HP 3130 desktop
|
Dave Modisette
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11050
- Joined: 2003/11/13 22:12:55
- Location: Brandon, Florida
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2012/04/13 22:30:17
(permalink)
See my response. The only solution is to use as low a latency setting as you can by doing your EZplayer work early in the project. The midi engine within a midi engine driving a sampler is why latency is compounded. Best guess is, I don't think there is anyway for SONAR to know what kind of latency is being produced by EZplayer so as to compensate for it.
|
relpomiraculous
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 525
- Joined: 2004/10/05 07:56:01
- Status: offline
Re:Using EZplayer and Steven Slate in 8.5.
2012/04/13 23:16:10
(permalink)
Mod Bod you are absolutely correct. I fixed the latency issue and now it is working perfectly. The "****ed" drumming is now rock solid.
Sonar X2 64 bit - Win 7 Pro 64 bit - Intel Core i7 870 - 8 gigs of ram - HP 3130 desktop
|