Jedi711
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Dry vocals sound like doubling....
I am running a Mackie onyx mixer via firewire into my laptop and am monitoring via input echo and cant understand why the vocals dont sound dry.They sound like they are being doubled or a very,very,very slight chorus is on.I have ruled out the mixer as when I monitor the vocals dry through the mixer they sound dry.I have also tried switching channels on the board and different speakers with no prevail.:(
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Studious
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/19 21:24:35
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It sounds like you are monitoring the direct signal into the mixer PLUS the Sonar-processed signal (i.e. latency added). The latency accounts for the doubling effect. Can you turn down/off the direct signal in your monitoring mix?
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Jedi711
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/19 21:31:07
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Thanks for the reply.I am not monitoring both if you mean through my mixer buss output and sonars buss output.I am simply monitoring through the input echo.I also switched the phase on and off also and nothing.Please help.....
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Shadow of The Wind
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/19 21:36:18
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Does the recorded track sound 'wet' or just what you hear while tracking?
While tracking, you would hear the monitor signal (with latency) plus your voice directly. Then, the latency causes the doubling.
If Also the recorded track sound 'wet', then you may hear the voice plus 'bleeding' from open or too loud headphones.
Wilko
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/19 21:55:52
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You have a monitor loop and the slight chorus you hear is the phase that is caused by such a loop
Go through your signal chain and find it. The loop is htere somewhere.
Cj
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Cactus Music
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/19 21:59:20
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The idea behind direct monitoring is to not listen to the output of the track you are recording whilel tracking. Sonar adjusts for any latency and syncs everything up. But depending on the interface, there will be varying amounts of latency. As said above, this will result in you hearing a delay version of your input. this can be from 3 to ??? ms.
5ms is sort of the point we hear something is off.
My interface has a pan knob that adjusts between listening to the computer or to the input. If I listen to 100% computer with input echo on that track I get the efx you are describing. Turn off the input echo and use your interfaces monitoring features, what ever system they may be. Each is a little different.
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Jedi711
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/19 22:07:19
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Thanks again.Yes it was a latency issue.I lowered my buffer size from 512 to 256 and the doubling dissappeared.Now other issues.....I am using a mackie firewire card with a dedicated firewire expresscard for my laptop and am experiencing clicks and pops while recording two keyboards(no plugins) and 1 vocal with 3 plugins;comp,delay,reverb(TC) while of course monitoring via input echo.This doesnt seem like alot of processing for an Intel I7 chip with 4 gigs of ram...What am I missing here...lol... do I need to run more ram..maybe 8 gigs?
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Jedi711
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/19 22:13:11
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My end scenario with all of this is I want to use sonar as a live interface with plugins as my effects.Please let me know if this is even logical...I dont have alot of money with three kids running around(bakugans and barbies add up)...;)
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Jedi711
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/19 22:26:10
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One more thing.....the more I lower my lower my buffer size,the worst the audio resolution?
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/19 22:52:06
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your ASIo buffer or WDm slider doesn't degrade sound quality.
It can cause artifacts if your CPU cannot handle low buffers though.
Also, your drivers for your mackie play a huge role in this and in my opinion, mackie drivers are not that good.
So it could be that your drivers are causing the artifacts or/and your CPU cannot handle low latency recording/mixing
Do you use a seperate hard drive for your audio?
Cj
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Jedi711
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/19 23:04:56
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Thanks CJ for the mini 101 course as Im new to all of this if it isnt apparent:)...I am not using an external...should I get a 7200 as my laptops 5400 and what does that do(do I run sonar off of the external)?Also what the reason behind the buffer size and how does it effect everything?Lastly,I like the mackie preamps but have not been subjected to or have tried other analog board/digital boards that will let me do what I am doing with the onyx..any suggestions in that price range(around $1000)that may get me better quality sound/compatabilty...thanks again
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/19 23:40:37
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Thanks CJ for the mini 101 course as Im new to all of this if it isnt apparent:)...I am not using an external...should I get a 7200 as my laptops 5400 and what does that do(do I run sonar off of the external)?Also what the reason behind the buffer size and how does it effect everything?Lastly,I like the mackie preamps but have not been subjected to or have tried other analog board/digital boards that will let me do what I am doing with the onyx..any suggestions in that price range(around $1000)that may get me better quality sound/compatabilty...thanks again
Yea, definitly get an external 7200RPM hard drive for yuor laptop. Even with desktops, a 2nd hard drive is best. I have a list of cards that I like, Its posted here in my site http://www.audio-mastering-mixing.com/FAQ___Q_A.html#33 Since you have a laptop, your a perfect canidate (  ) for the new RME USB sound card. Its the RME Fireface UC Cj
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David
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/20 04:40:03
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Jedi711
My end scenario with all of this is I want to use sonar as a live interface with plugins as my effects.Please let me know if this is even logical...I dont have alot of money with three kids running around(bakugans and barbies add up)...;)
Hi Jedi, a couple things for just recording the makie has and awesome monitoring system, no need to use input echo unless you want effects, My experience with the onyx , it would be next to impossible to use sonars effects in a live situation , I just could not get the latency low enough. It is a great interface though , but drivers were a problem .
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jimmyrage
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/20 05:04:48
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Jedi711
My end scenario with all of this is I want to use sonar as a live interface with plugins as my effects.Please let me know if this is even logical...I dont have alot of money with three kids running around(bakugans and barbies add up)...;)
You may want to look at a separate effect processor. Maybe something like a Lexicon MX 400. I use a Onyx 1640 with the buffer set at 128 and still wouldn't use it for that purpose. A faster hard drive would help with your recording system, as already stated.
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daveny5
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/20 10:27:50
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Jedi711
Thanks again.Yes it was a latency issue.I lowered my buffer size from 512 to 256 and the doubling dissappeared.Now other issues.....I am using a mackie firewire card with a dedicated firewire expresscard for my laptop and am experiencing clicks and pops while recording two keyboards(no plugins) and 1 vocal with 3 plugins;comp,delay,reverb(TC) while of course monitoring via input echo.This doesnt seem like alot of processing for an Intel I7 chip with 4 gigs of ram...What am I missing here...lol... do I need to run more ram..maybe 8 gigs?
Are you running in ASIO or WDM mode? What is your latency slider set to? If you set it lower than its capable of handling, you will get clicks and pops.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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Shadow of The Wind
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/20 11:01:24
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If you want to use Sonar as an effect processor, make sure that unnecessary processes do not create pops and crackles when running at low latencies. I would take a look at what Cakewalk recommends under 'Support'.
Wilko
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Jedi711
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/21 23:49:27
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Thanks everyone for the valuable input.What is the purpose of the buffer setting?Is higher or lower better?Do I install Sonar on the external drive?Thanks...Jeff
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ssebs
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/22 02:53:13
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The asio buffer is the data which can be prepared by sonar for playing.
If it's too high, you get audible latency (with delay like you have on voice recording).
It must be set at the minimum value that you can get without drop-outs/clicks (when it's too low, the cpu can't manage it).
You can keep Sonar on your laptop drive, when sonar is loaded it doesn't need to access it. The external drive will be for saving your sonar projects with their audio data files.
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Jedi711
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Re:Dry vocals sound like doubling....
2010/11/22 19:21:07
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