More Ac30CC2 Problems

Author
punkrockmax
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3
  • Joined: 2010/08/31 03:36:06
  • Status: offline
2010/12/03 05:19:01 (permalink)

More Ac30CC2 Problems

Well I've had my ac30cc2 for a couple months and recently I got a case of the rice krispies. basically my amp was makin a lot of unwanted noises. i decided to take a look inside and see what the problem was. Not sure if this is the cause but I noticed that capacitor c36 was missing. Also I don't know why but the resistor right next to it (r51) is just a straight bridge with no resistor. I know it's not supposed to be a bridge because the other side, c37 and r52, has a full on resistor and the schematic also says there should be a resistor there.

Obviously I need to replace these components even if that's not causing my snaps crackles and pops. One problem I'm running into is that I'm not 100% sure what type of capacitor I'm missing. I've theorized that they are metallized polypropylene film due to this picture http://www.global-b2b-net...lm_capacitors_box.html but am not 100% sure. They are definitely not ceramic or electrolytic. They look like small yellow boxes. Anyone out there know for sure what I need to order?

When I do these fixes I am planning on ordering some new preamp tubes because my guess is if the capacitor is not my problem they are. The stock tubes in this amp seem to be of poor quality especially the rectifier which I've already had to replace. One more problem I need to solve is what tubes are what in the preamp section. I have a theory that v2 is the phase inverter and v1 and v3 are the tubes for each separate channel but have not verified this on the schematic. Does anybody know for sure what is what in there?

Thanks for any advice, it's greatly appreciated!
#1

12 Replies Related Threads

    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    Re:More Ac30CC2 Problems 2010/12/03 07:26:30 (permalink)
    I would caution you from assuming that just because you see a place on the circuit board with some holes and a part label that you should add the parts.

    It's unlikely the factory forgot it on purpose... there may have been a running revision or it may be for another markets practical (power supply) or regulatory (radio interference) requirements.

    Small yellow boxes are probably polypro caps... the specification of farads and voltage will usually narrow down the choices of construction available for consideration.

    Preamp tubes are usually very long lived unless they are just plain badly made.

    There are very few well made new rectifier tubes... and rectifier tubes work hard so they do wear out more often than the other tubes. The AC30 uses a lot of energy because it is Class A.

    Link to a schematic of your particular variant of the AC30 and we can tell you what tube does what.

    FWIW, I think you have yet to actually diagnose your real problem and you are distracting yourself... I don't want to seem mean spirited... but it is never good to start thinking about regular maintenance issues while you are trouble shooting a specific problem. I think you still have quite a bit of investigating to get the problem identified... so I recommend that you maintain consistency and focus on diagnosing that problem. That does include removing and re-inserting tubes but all the work should be done very systematically so that you narrow down the issue.

    I think helping you ID each tubes function is a great first step to helping narrow down where the issue is.... please link to a schematic of your exact AC30 model and we an help.

    Good luck and best regards,
    mike


    #2
    Tap
    Max Output Level: -30 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4536
    • Joined: 2008/10/09 11:55:30
    • Location: Newburyport, MA
    • Status: offline
    Re:More Ac30CC2 Problems 2010/12/03 09:24:37 (permalink)
    I have to agree with Mike. Also, the manufacture may use the same board for different models and stock the components differently. The real give away here is the Jumper replacement for the Resistor. They obviously didn't forget to fill the slot. Snap, Crackle and Pops are often the result of a component failure. A signal tracer can sometimes help narrow the problem down if it's isolated to a particular stage. If it occurs on all the stages, then it's probably coming from the Power Supply Circuitry which Mike alluded to.

    +1 for learning your Amp from each tubes function. This will help you identify the different stages to test.

    MC4 - M-Audio FW410 / Behringer UCA202 - Fender Strat / Jazzmaster / DuoSonic / Washburn / Peavy Foundation M-Audio Radium 49 Roland Juno 106 / JazzChorus / Seymore Duncan Convertible - HP A1230N ( AMD Athalon 3800+ 2G Ram + 200G HD )

    http://soundclick.com/cut2thechaise

    #3
    DeeringAmps
    Max Output Level: -49 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2614
    • Joined: 2005/10/03 10:29:25
    • Location: Seattle area
    • Status: offline
    Re:More Ac30CC2 Problems 2010/12/03 09:58:56 (permalink)
    Max,
    Yikes!
    You have much experience inside valve amps?
    I build and I wouldn't just start adding caps and resistors...
    Mike and Tap are right, boards go through constant revisions and can have multiple uses...
    If its not just a 12ax7 gone noisy, you need to have someone look at it that knows their way around the newer AC30's.
    Be CAREFUL! Lots of stored energy in the power supply!

    Tom

    PS, I know from experience why shock treatment is effective, 400-500 vDC makes you REAL complacent!

    Tom Deering
    Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page
    Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins

    Win10x64
    StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM

    RME UFX (Audio)
    Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
    #4
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    Re:More Ac30CC2 Problems 2010/12/03 10:20:27 (permalink)
    The last time I got stung I felt weird for a few days. I was lucky I only touched AC and had the discipline to pull away... which is not a natural reaction. My buddy Buster got hit by DC on a cap once... he literally left a hole in the drywall as he was blown off his bench. That's something you don't forget.

    Yes, we should always disclaim responsibility when advising about tube amp maintenance; it is very dangerous inside a tube amp... if you don't have the full safety training... don't go poking around inside!




    #5
    Tap
    Max Output Level: -30 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4536
    • Joined: 2008/10/09 11:55:30
    • Location: Newburyport, MA
    • Status: offline
    Re:More Ac30CC2 Problems 2010/12/03 10:26:37 (permalink)
    This is certainly true. Always be careful when working with High Voltages. Note: If you are going to poke around with a signal tracer, make sure you have a big Cap on the probe, something that is rated more than the largest plate voltage on any of the Tubes in there.

    MC4 - M-Audio FW410 / Behringer UCA202 - Fender Strat / Jazzmaster / DuoSonic / Washburn / Peavy Foundation M-Audio Radium 49 Roland Juno 106 / JazzChorus / Seymore Duncan Convertible - HP A1230N ( AMD Athalon 3800+ 2G Ram + 200G HD )

    http://soundclick.com/cut2thechaise

    #6
    DeeringAmps
    Max Output Level: -49 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2614
    • Joined: 2005/10/03 10:29:25
    • Location: Seattle area
    • Status: offline
    Re:More Ac30CC2 Problems 2010/12/03 10:55:46 (permalink)
    Sounds like Buster was the path to ground; OUCH!
    I took the full supply, the amp was in "standby" fortunately, so I wasn't hooked directly to the rectifier, and I wasn't the path to ground.
    Its all about discipline, if you get careless the snake will bite!
    Put my thumb on the IEC recepticle once, I always flip those now so the line and neutral are away from the open side of the chassis. Must have just got the line that time, only felt the 60hz vibration; wakes you up real fast...

    Tom

    Tom Deering
    Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page
    Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins

    Win10x64
    StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM

    RME UFX (Audio)
    Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
    #7
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    Re:More Ac30CC2 Problems 2010/12/03 11:10:23 (permalink)
    When I was a little kid my dad would take me to the switch yard and make lightning fly between the big outdoor transformers by doing something unorthodox to the relays (He was the relay engineer) and I would run out of fright into the concrete *bunker* type building on site.

    He liked to tell those stories about how scared I would get to my buddies as I got older :-S.

    It has kept me fairly disciplined around hot stuff. :-)


    #8
    Tap
    Max Output Level: -30 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4536
    • Joined: 2008/10/09 11:55:30
    • Location: Newburyport, MA
    • Status: offline
    Re:More Ac30CC2 Problems 2010/12/03 13:01:21 (permalink)
    Yeah, When I was back in Tech School working on a big 'ole console TV set. I used to fix it every day so it was working in time for Get Smart ~ 10:00AM. My teacher caught on and started sabotaging the set to keep me busy. One day he did something to the Power Supply. I crawled inside to take some measurements with the VTVM, when all of a sudden a cap blew and had ricocheted around the inside of the console. Scarred the EBGB's out of me. I proceeded to unplug the damn thing and went back in to find where the stupid cap had blown from. Got the shock of my life. Rechecked that I had indeed unplugged the set and scratched my head in amazement. Finally realilzed that the CRT ( which also acts as a cap) was charged to something over 100 volts.  Learned my lesson well!

    MC4 - M-Audio FW410 / Behringer UCA202 - Fender Strat / Jazzmaster / DuoSonic / Washburn / Peavy Foundation M-Audio Radium 49 Roland Juno 106 / JazzChorus / Seymore Duncan Convertible - HP A1230N ( AMD Athalon 3800+ 2G Ram + 200G HD )

    http://soundclick.com/cut2thechaise

    #9
    punkrockmax
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3
    • Joined: 2010/08/31 03:36:06
    • Status: offline
    Re:More Ac30CC2 Problems 2010/12/03 15:25:14 (permalink)
    Brutal! Here I thought I had sufficiently solved my problem and was definitely a genius. Maybe if I describe my problem more it will help me out diagnosing. I will also describe my current skill level in electronics to see if my best bet is to just take it to the tech.

    First off when I turn the standby switch the amp runs fine no noies/hum. Sometimes when I plug in a guitar cable this will set the amp off into making clicks and pops and such. Sometimes though I'll plug in and there will still be no noise yet. Once I start playing the pops and clicks will definitely start and will continue to get louder and more intense the longer I play. Once the pops and clicks have started they will not stop even if I unplug everything and turn all the knobs including the master to 0. That being said if it's not that capacitor I'm pretty clueless as what it could be besides bad tubes.

    Now my skill level is pretty amateur so here's where I am at. When I first started a few years back I was just screwin around and shocked myself so I decided I would look up some safety precautions. Since then I've learned how to drain the power caps and to look but not touch in most cases. I do own a DMM but am not sure really of any tests to run or how to run tests.

    Also I don't plan on replacing the resistor anymore but still wonder about the cap. mainly bcuz there is no bridge on it and there is solder points on the underneath side. When they dip the board would the solder stick there even if there was no component in the wholes? I don't know I guess.

    Here is the schematic
    http://www.mzm.us/AC30CC_Schematics.pdf
    I've been informed which preamp tube does what.

    All this being said I'm pretty much at your mercy here. Thanks for all your help guys!
    #10
    DeeringAmps
    Max Output Level: -49 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2614
    • Joined: 2005/10/03 10:29:25
    • Location: Seattle area
    • Status: offline
    Re:More Ac30CC2 Problems 2010/12/19 11:03:19 (permalink)
    So Max where are you at with your AC30?
    I want to be sure I understand your problem (symptoms).
    Once the "noise" starts, turning the "Master" to zero does NOT change the "noise" at all?
    If I read the schematic you've referenced correctly the "Master" is phase-canceling.
    (does everybody see this the same way I do?)
    If the "noise" source was anywhere in the pre-amp, INCLUDING the phase inverter (I tend to think of the PI is part of the power section) turning the "Master" down should at least cut the noise some.
    I think I would look at the "tremelo" section, that's the only thing that is post "Master".
    That would be my "best guess", if it were on my bench I would somehow disconnect that from the signal path.

    Good Luck,

    Tom

    Tom Deering
    Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page
    Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins

    Win10x64
    StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM

    RME UFX (Audio)
    Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
    #11
    The Maillard Reaction
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 31918
    • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
    • Status: offline
    Re:More Ac30CC2 Problems 2010/12/19 11:24:59 (permalink)
    I'm having trouble following it.

    I see VR10 but I get confused when I trace back to the two plates on the ECC83.

    I'll look again later.

    punk,

    Tom is trying to direct you to diagnose the issue by splitting the possibilities so as to make it easier to find the problem.

    Take a look at his questions and give us specific answers. Let's figure out what side of the master volume stage the problem is on.

    best regards,
    mike


    #12
    DeeringAmps
    Max Output Level: -49 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2614
    • Joined: 2005/10/03 10:29:25
    • Location: Seattle area
    • Status: offline
    Re:More Ac30CC2 Problems 2010/12/20 10:57:28 (permalink)
    Mike,
    The signals coming off the PI plates (V3) go through C19 and C20, then R31 and R32, and on the the "Master" VR10.
    Think of the "Master" as a "blend" pot. If both signals are isolated from each other they pass through "relatively" unaltered (this is why I don't use the phase canceling master volume), and on to the grids of the power tubes.
    Now, and here is where we are getting our noise, the junction of R41 and R42 is our "bias" point. In a fixed bias design this is where we would apply our negative voltage and "bias" the output section. In a cathode biased amp this point is connected to ground. OR, as in this design, the variable voltage source for the tremelo. Any "noise" injected at that point could cause the problems Max is experiencing.
    Short that junction to ground, and IF I'm correct, problem solved.
    Who needs tremelo anyway?
    Not how the original AC30's were done, and IMNSH opinion, why all "Re-Issues" aren't re-issues at all, just some horse**** marketing playing fast and loose. But I digress...
    I think that's the problem. Could also be the cap across the output bias resistor, but I'd short to ground first....
    TFN,
    Tom

    Tom Deering
    Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page
    Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins

    Win10x64
    StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM

    RME UFX (Audio)
    Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
    #13
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1