Help a brother out!...

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Sacalait
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December 15, 10 7:49 PM (permalink)

Help a brother out!...

I've made a few posts over the last year and a half asking about the quality of the converters on the VS700R.  ...I may sound like a flake because I haven't pulled the trigger but... I aint...  I make a living with Sonar- I'm a full-time producer with almost 50 commercially produced albums (check my Facebook page if you'd like).  I'm currently using Mytek for the A/D chores and an RME MultiFaceII as my main interface. 
 
So here's the question- and I'll put it a different way:
 
"Are the converters in the VS700R as good as the converters on the Roland VS2480?  (I know Westside S has used the 2480).
 
I'm gonna buy either the VS700R or the new RME Fireface UFX. 
 
I tend to lean toward the RME because I've become very accustomed to the software.  The converters on the MultiFace aren't bad- at all- but I'd like to move up.  ...for whatever reason, I never get an 'excited' answer to this question about the VS- BUT, I've heard records recorded with the VS 2480 that sound stellar- clean and almost 'tape-like'.  
 
please feel free to express yourself

www.pershingwells.com www.facebook.com/pershingwells
Sonar Platinum, PC- Intel i7-4770K w/16 Gig RAM Windows 8.1, Solid State Drive and eSATA drives, Mytek, RME UFX, RME Multiface II, Roland VS700,  A-Designs Pacifica, UA LA610, Presonus RC500. A-Designs Hammer EQ, DBX, AKG, Neumann, Roland, JBL, Fender, Gibson, G&L, Marshall, Korg, Martin, Shure, Electrovoice, Yamaha, Chameleon Labs comps.
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    Audiodog
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 15, 10 10:41 PM (permalink)
    The pres in the VS700R are very good quality overall. I ran a small commercial studio based on the VS2480 and really loved that machine, but the VS700R mic pres are a step up from that. Definitely more open sounding, but I suppose if you don't like that open sound it would up for discussion. I find the VS700R pres more natural sounding. That said, I still prefer my Focusrite Red 8 pres better....
    #2
    gospeltunes
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 16, 10 3:19 AM (permalink)
    Sacalait


    I've made a few posts over the last year and a half asking about the quality of the converters on the VS700R.  ...I may sound like a flake because I haven't pulled the trigger but... I aint...  I make a living with Sonar- I'm a full-time producer with almost 50 commercially produced albums (check my Facebook page if you'd like).  I'm currently using Mytek for the A/D chores and an RME MultiFaceII as my main interface. 
     
    So here's the question- and I'll put it a different way:
     
    "Are the converters in the VS700R as good as the converters on the Roland VS2480?  (I know Westside S has used the 2480).
     
    I'm gonna buy either the VS700R or the new RME Fireface UFX. 
     
    I tend to lean toward the RME because I've become very accustomed to the software.  The converters on the MultiFace aren't bad- at all- but I'd like to move up.  ...for whatever reason, I never get an 'excited' answer to this question about the VS- BUT, I've heard records recorded with the VS 2480 that sound stellar- clean and almost 'tape-like'.  
     
    please feel free to express yourself

    Sacalait,
     
    I know what you mean.  I've searched all over the internet for some really positive comments on the converters and pre's on the 700R, but none one ever seems to get too excited about them.   Reviewers and users use descriptions like "good" or "quality".  But no one ever seems to say "great" or "outstanding", and it's always or 4 out of 5 stars, but never 5 out of 5.  So I've come to the conclusion that the 700R must be a solid piece of equipment,  but nothing too spectacular.  I have a Roland VS2480 and I want to upgrade to some type of Sonar system, so I believe that the 700R would be a definite upgrade in audio quality, but not a major one.  I hope some more real world users chime in. 
    #3
    Dyonight
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 16, 10 2:00 PM (permalink)
    Hi!

    I think that the VS-700R is among the best before you say "high-end".  I've never heard RME before but what I know is that the VS700R will not be the cause if the end recorded product is bad quality.

    I'm tired of "better, blow *** away" etc. kind of review. The VS700R will give you very high quality results.

    Concerning A/D, I think there's not a lot of products that can ruin your recording and the VS is certainly not in this category.

    Anyway, I think the best way to figure out yourself if it will enhance your sound is to try an Octa-Capture.  The pres seem to be the same (VS preamps...) and the converters must be really similar.  At 599$, maybe you can try one and return it if you don't like or buy one and sell it with very little money loss.

    That way you'll be settled and of course with the 700R you can keep your Mytek converters and use them expand the VS digital ins.  There's not a lot to fear IMO...

    That being said.... I'd really like, if you try the Octa or the 700R, to know how you apreciate it compared to your existing setup! 
    #4
    Dyonight
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 16, 10 2:06 PM (permalink)
    Hey by the way, would you want me to do a recording or test exclusively for you?

    What would you like to hear?  Tell me and I'll se if I can be of any help!
    #5
    Sacalait
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 16, 10 3:29 PM (permalink)
    Thanks for the response AudioDog and Dyonight.  I neglected to say I'm not really looking at either the VS700 or the RME Fireface UFX just for the mic pres.  I own an A-Designs Pacifica (very premium mic preamps) and a Presonus MP20 (which is WAY underrated- not far away from the Pacifica).  While both the VS and the RME seem to have 'very good' mic pres, I'm more interested in the AD/DA converters.  Gaining some mic pre's would be a plus for sure.

    www.pershingwells.com www.facebook.com/pershingwells
    Sonar Platinum, PC- Intel i7-4770K w/16 Gig RAM Windows 8.1, Solid State Drive and eSATA drives, Mytek, RME UFX, RME Multiface II, Roland VS700,  A-Designs Pacifica, UA LA610, Presonus RC500. A-Designs Hammer EQ, DBX, AKG, Neumann, Roland, JBL, Fender, Gibson, G&L, Marshall, Korg, Martin, Shure, Electrovoice, Yamaha, Chameleon Labs comps.
    #6
    peter434
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 16, 10 8:57 PM (permalink)
    Hi,

    "Are the converters in the VS700R as good as the converters on the Roland VS2480?"

    Presently, I work with one VS 2400 CD which is supposed to have the same converters as the VS 2480; everything is OK in these recorders; line inputs are very correct, but the inbuilt mic preamps  are not "sufficient" for a quality voice recording for example , and the use of external processors is highly recommended.
    BUT, there is a curious thing that occurs with VS2400/2480 : their proprietary R-DAC algorithm (which consists in "compressing" the audio flux in order to save internal memory and processor, and so called inaudible by Roland engineers) gives a certain warmth to the sound which can be flattering.
    However, I could recently perceived that this encoding format slightly degraded  the rich textures of my Yamaha workstation Motif XS performances! Less dynamics and "anemic" trebles in comparison with the original source. I tried to record in the other linear recording modes and I notice an improvement at the 88 KHZ ! More subtility and depht.
    I think the VS700R has more "transparent"converters, but your Mytec converters which is famous for its performance and stability should be the prioritary reference. But my intuition says that we can rely on the good quality of the converters and audio circuitry of the V 700 R interface.
    #7
    stratrat1
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 17, 10 9:34 PM (permalink)
    I did a test run on a new mic I bought the other day. I found that the converters, pre amps, and the whole system sounds remarkable... I love it especially for the price "in comparison"...I haven't had my VS-700 long, I've only done a few test recordings with it, getting ready for my next project.. Im totally pleased with my system. My ears are very pleased with the results


    Sonar Platinum
    windows 10 64bit
    Intel i7 Quad 950
    Asus p6t 
    24 gigs DDR3 1333
    3 250 gig SSD
    VS-700C
    Soundcraft COMPACT 24 for pres and converters....
    #8
    Dyonight
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 18, 10 12:34 AM (permalink)
    Sacalait


    While both the VS and the RME seem to have 'very good' mic pres, I'm more interested in the AD/DA converters. 
    Just to be shure, you're probably aware that you cannot bypass entirely the mic pres on the VS700R, so the A/D cannot be accessed without going through the VS pres, even if you use the 1/4 ins, they won't act as line ins since the 1/4 and XLR input are wired in paralel and then goes to the pres.


    So that lead me back to the fact that you could try an Octa-Capture for a shootout, which should give very similar results.
    #9
    Sacalait
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 18, 10 7:50 PM (permalink)
    Thanks.  I appreciate everyones input.   

    www.pershingwells.com www.facebook.com/pershingwells
    Sonar Platinum, PC- Intel i7-4770K w/16 Gig RAM Windows 8.1, Solid State Drive and eSATA drives, Mytek, RME UFX, RME Multiface II, Roland VS700,  A-Designs Pacifica, UA LA610, Presonus RC500. A-Designs Hammer EQ, DBX, AKG, Neumann, Roland, JBL, Fender, Gibson, G&L, Marshall, Korg, Martin, Shure, Electrovoice, Yamaha, Chameleon Labs comps.
    #10
    stratrat1
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 19, 10 9:48 AM (permalink)
    You can bypass the pres using your digital ins and out though..


    Sonar Platinum
    windows 10 64bit
    Intel i7 Quad 950
    Asus p6t 
    24 gigs DDR3 1333
    3 250 gig SSD
    VS-700C
    Soundcraft COMPACT 24 for pres and converters....
    #11
    Sacalait
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 21, 10 12:19 AM (permalink)
    Well I made a decision and bought the VS 700R.  I appreciate all you guys help.

    I'm getting it by Christmas Eve and know support is going to be closed all weekend.  There's a firmware update (I think that needs to be performed).  Anything I should know that any of you guys could share would be appreciated.

    www.pershingwells.com www.facebook.com/pershingwells
    Sonar Platinum, PC- Intel i7-4770K w/16 Gig RAM Windows 8.1, Solid State Drive and eSATA drives, Mytek, RME UFX, RME Multiface II, Roland VS700,  A-Designs Pacifica, UA LA610, Presonus RC500. A-Designs Hammer EQ, DBX, AKG, Neumann, Roland, JBL, Fender, Gibson, G&L, Marshall, Korg, Martin, Shure, Electrovoice, Yamaha, Chameleon Labs comps.
    #12
    Crg
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 21, 10 9:30 PM (permalink)
    Sacalait


    Well I made a decision and bought the VS 700R.  I appreciate all you guys help.

    I'm getting it by Christmas Eve and know support is going to be closed all weekend.  There's a firmware update (I think that needs to be performed).  Anything I should know that any of you guys could share would be appreciated.


    There are several now since the new updates for the octacapture came out. Make sure you study them and put them in, in the proper order. and there is one coming for X1 and the Pro Channel.

    Craig DuBuc
    #13
    Sacalait
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 23, 10 3:39 PM (permalink)
    I got the VS700R in.  I'm using Sonar 8.5.3.  The unit came with NO CD's (drivers).  I downloaded the drivers but can seem to get them installed.  I've tried a few times.  I left the computer alone for at least 15 minutes one time and it STILL didn't install. 

    Any advice?

    www.pershingwells.com www.facebook.com/pershingwells
    Sonar Platinum, PC- Intel i7-4770K w/16 Gig RAM Windows 8.1, Solid State Drive and eSATA drives, Mytek, RME UFX, RME Multiface II, Roland VS700,  A-Designs Pacifica, UA LA610, Presonus RC500. A-Designs Hammer EQ, DBX, AKG, Neumann, Roland, JBL, Fender, Gibson, G&L, Marshall, Korg, Martin, Shure, Electrovoice, Yamaha, Chameleon Labs comps.
    #14
    Audiodog
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 24, 10 1:05 AM (permalink)
    I would strongly suggest calling Ryan Munnis at Cakewalk support. He can talk you through it. As Craig said, the order of things is really important.
    #15
    Sacalait
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    Re:Help a brother out!... December 24, 10 10:36 AM (permalink)
    Audiodog...  that could be a problem on Monday (...have you been following the X 1 forum?...  ...geez...)

    I hope it works out but I'm not gonna attach myself to it.  Further, I can't afford the controller at the moment so leveling monitors IS a serious issue....  ...wish they'd have included that little VITAL feature in the i/o editor... 

    www.pershingwells.com www.facebook.com/pershingwells
    Sonar Platinum, PC- Intel i7-4770K w/16 Gig RAM Windows 8.1, Solid State Drive and eSATA drives, Mytek, RME UFX, RME Multiface II, Roland VS700,  A-Designs Pacifica, UA LA610, Presonus RC500. A-Designs Hammer EQ, DBX, AKG, Neumann, Roland, JBL, Fender, Gibson, G&L, Marshall, Korg, Martin, Shure, Electrovoice, Yamaha, Chameleon Labs comps.
    #16
    konradh
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    Re:Help a brother out!... April 20, 11 4:26 PM (permalink)
    For what it's worth, I use a Presonus Eureka channel strip in front of the 700 for mics.  Sounds good to me and has plenty of level.
    #17
    Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Help a brother out!... April 26, 11 10:12 AM (permalink)
    Sacalait


    I got the VS700R in.  I'm using Sonar 8.5.3.  The unit came with NO CD's (drivers).  I downloaded the drivers but can seem to get them installed.  I've tried a few times.  I left the computer alone for at least 15 minutes one time and it STILL didn't install. 

    Any advice?


    Hi Sacalait,

    Best place to get started with all of the updates for all of the relevant SONAR and VS-700 updates is here: http://www.cakewalk.com/S...s700_installation.aspx

    Just answer a few short questions and it should expose the correct installers for your setup.

    In regards to the driver install failing, what exactly is happening? Which version of Windows are you running on your computer? Do you get an error message stating the driver install failed or does nothing happen at all?

    If you're on Windows Vista or Windows 7, you should see a notification near your system clock that tells you the status of the driver install and whether or not it failed.

    Try connecting your VS-700R to your computer, powering it on, and then going into the Windows Device Manager. Do you see the VS-700 listed as a device under "Sound, video and game controllers"? Do you see it listed with an exclamation point under "Other Devices"?

    Let us know, I'm sure we can get it squared away.

    Best,


    Ryan Munnis
    Cakewalk
    #18
    Sacalait
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    Re:Help a brother out!... April 27, 11 7:51 AM (permalink)
    Ryan!  Thanks for responding bro but I've BEEN up and running.  ...might wanna do a case study on my setup as I'm not using the V700C controller.

    www.pershingwells.com www.facebook.com/pershingwells
    Sonar Platinum, PC- Intel i7-4770K w/16 Gig RAM Windows 8.1, Solid State Drive and eSATA drives, Mytek, RME UFX, RME Multiface II, Roland VS700,  A-Designs Pacifica, UA LA610, Presonus RC500. A-Designs Hammer EQ, DBX, AKG, Neumann, Roland, JBL, Fender, Gibson, G&L, Marshall, Korg, Martin, Shure, Electrovoice, Yamaha, Chameleon Labs comps.
    #19
    Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Help a brother out!... April 27, 11 9:22 AM (permalink)
    Sacalait


    Ryan!  Thanks for responding bro but I've BEEN up and running.  ...might wanna do a case study on my setup as I'm not using the V700C controller.
    Saw this thread at the top of the forum... but failed to look at the date of your posts.

    Glad to hear you weren't still trying to troubleshoot this four months later. ;)
    post edited by Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk] - April 27, 11 9:23 AM

    Ryan Munnis
    Cakewalk
    #20
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