Tips for good mix translation to other sound systems?

I just worked my butt off on a mix, only to have it sound like complete trash on another sound system, to the point of being really embarrassing.

Up until now I've had mixes have subtle differences outside of my monitors, i.e. low end becomes too pronounced or mid-range things (guitars) too loud/quiet ... But this time my ENTIRE mix sounded COMPLETELY out of whack.

Any tips in this area?

I always take my mix around and listen on a few systems.

It's shame you suffered discouragement... but I'll bet you are ready for a remix.

Do it... it's a pretty normal part of the process.

best regards,
mike

Translation can seem like a perpetually moving target at first. The basic problem is that every playback system is deficient (including your studio monitoring), and each system is deficient in its own way. If it seems impossible to make a record that sounds equally good everywhere, it's because it truly IS impossible.

You can find lots of tips, such as using well-made commercial recordings as references, or applying spectral and amplitude analyses to your mixes. But ultimately there is only one workable strategy, which is to make your own monitoring system and your own monitoring environment as neutral as possible. The goal is to shoot for the statistical center of all possible playback system deficiencies.

This will not guarantee your music will sound great in the car, but whatever shortcomings you hear in the car will be the fault of the car's stereo and the weird acoustics inherent in all cars, not in your mix.

Most musicians are conditioned to think that if they aren't getting the sound they want, the solution is buying better gear. There is a whole industry built around that belief that loves to take your money while making false promises in return. But good news: when it comes to translation, throwing money at the problem is not the cure. Your salvation lies in the study and application of acoustics, both measurement and treatments. Measurements are free and treatments are (or at least can be) inexpensive. Resolve the acoustical problems in your room and your mixes will instantly start to translate better and better.

(Note: this advice does presume that you already own some acceptable studio monitors. That doesn't mean expensive speakers, just reasonably flat full-range speakers. Spending big bucks on speakers is a total waste of money if you don't address room acoustics first. This would only not be the case if you were mixing on severely deficient speakers such as stock plastic computer speakers, laptop speakers or iPod earbuds.)

tarsier


This happens to the best of 'em. I forget which Beatles track it was, but it was recorded and mixed at Trident studios and it sounded fantastic there. Then when they brought it back to EMI it sounded terrible. Turns out that the Trident studio monitors were much brighter sounding than the EMI monitors.

Do you have a bunch of recordings that you absolutely love the sound of? Load those into your DAW and learn how they sound on your setup. Then learn how they sound on other setups. Now try to make your mixes sound like they wouldn't be out of place when played next to your favorites.  Not necessarily sound like those mixes, just make them sound like they would fit well together in a compilation.

This is more or less what I've been running on. I have my "sweet spot" set up where I listen to a lot of music and mix, so I try to train my ears to how things should should sound relative to that spot in the room. I never mix with the subwoofer on, though I'll bring it up obviously when I want to tend specifically to the low end - but first i'll bring up a bunch of "pro" mixes to find a good reference point.

As I said, the most I've ever suffered in the last 3 years (yeah, I'm still a noob, but not THAT kind of noob) was having little things here or there be off the mark on another sound system... Vocals don't sound right, or entire sibilance area is suddenly overbearing, or what-have-you. But never, in likely over 100 songs, my -entire- mix and practically -all- of my painstakingly-set levels.

There are a few of things that probably contributed to yesterday's occurance.
1) I have alternate references to use on the spot, outside of my mains, before calling it a day: 2 pairs of headphones (Shure SRH-840's and Sony MDR-7509HD's), crappy laptop speakers, and an old stereo. Used none of them.
2) I mixed 1 song for 10 hours straight. Only took breaks to eat. By the end of the day I'm sure fatigue was a big factor.
3) Personally, I absolutely hate the raw tracks. Aside from the drummer, nobody else in the group had recorded before. So all of the raw tracks besides the drums are absolutely horrendous - not as in peaks or signal quality, mind you, but in performance. But it's my job to mix it and make it sound not so bad. It's rough when you have a bad taste in your mouth from the start. But I suppose it's my job to get over that?

EDIT: When I mean "bad" I mean so bad that for 2 of the backup vocalists I had to crank my preamp up to 100% to get even a low signal and  provide moderate monitoring, because they were so terrified of the microphone that they sang at near-whisper level and stood too far from the mic -- obviously introducing LOTS of unnecessary noise into the signal.

wayofmind


I just worked my butt off on a mix, only to have it sound like complete trash on another sound system, to the point of being really embarrassing.

Up until now I've had mixes have subtle differences outside of my monitors, i.e. low end becomes too pronounced or mid-range things (guitars) too loud/quiet ... But this time my ENTIRE mix sounded COMPLETELY out of whack.

Any tips in this area?

Know your monitors. You have to learn what your monitors sound like and how that would translate to on other systems. For example if your mix has too much bass in the car then your monitors are weak in that area. Once you learn that you can mix with a better balance so it comes out right on other systems.  If the mids are not very detailed and come out too loud or unbalanced on other systems you might need different monitors.  Even a set of cheap low power stereo speakers might be good on have on your rig to double check your mix with.  That way if you are swamping the mix with bass you will know it right away.  A set of car 6x9 speakers in boxes are always good to have. Just don't get "good" ones that can handle a lot of power. It's better to have close to OEM quality full range 6x9. Two way ones with a cone tweeter and small magnets seem to work best, if you can still find such a thing.

There are lots of major label recording where they failed to do that. I try to play the CD in my car and I have to turn it way down to keep from damaging my speakers.  Yes it make the CD sound better at very low volume but the down side is you can't crank it so you can enjoy what is going on in the mids, it's just THUMP THUMP THUMP.  I'm sure it sounded perfect on the $14,000 speakers in the studio but that didn't help the customer any.

Thanks a bunch for all of your responses, guys. Very useful insight for a noob-ish guy like me. bitflipper, I don't know how I missed your post earlier today before I made my first response. But yes, everything everyone has said has given me a lot to think about. I've thought about stuff like getting started on acoustic panels and such before... But I was kind of dragging my feet with that because I had gotten decent results regardless... Until yesterday. It was bad. I mean... It was really bad.

I have to agree about knowing your monitors. I've got a set of Event 20/20's back at home just waiting to make the trip up here. I bought a set of Altec Lansing computer speakers really cheap at Tiger Direct up here with no intention of using them with my DAW. They are surprisingly linear in the mid to high range and the sub-woofer can be adjusted to make the system work.  I use the Beatles #1 CD to calibrate my monitors.

What I like about this CD is that it starts with their early work and progresses technically. Their early work has the instruments very well isolated so that I can adjust the tone to the point where each instrument sounds exceptionally realistic. As the album progresses, I can tune in the subtleties of the mid ranges for the multitude of interesting instruments they incorporate such as cello ( Eleanor Rigby ) piccolo trumpet ( Penny Lane ), piano ( Lady Madonna ), Electric Piano ( Get Back ), Strings ( The long and winding road ). 

Now that I know I'm getting my money's worth from the system. I know that it's no longer my limiting factor. Now it's up to me to do a good job of feeding it with a well balanced input.  Further, most people will be listening back on a comparable system ( home stereo, car stereo or mp3 player). I always make an mp3 of my product to listen back on my mp3. I'll take the same mp3 player and plug it into my car stereo to listen back as well. Once I think it sounds good on these three systems, I'll commit it to a CD and listen to the CD back on several systems as well.