marcus3
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recording drums single track or multiple help
ok got qustion was thinking of buying the yamaha dd65 and sm57. my basic qustions is can i still get good drums mix rec. drums on single track? i got on the web did some reserch came up with this http://www.wikirecording.org/Guide_to_Recording_Drums under Micing with Limitations (One Microphone) it reads if i mic out my drums with one mic it will give me more old school sound the way they rec before multitracks and computers were made for music. and im trying get the motown sound. any advice? appreciate it marcus
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jimmyrage
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/25 12:00:56
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Isn't a Yamaha dd65 a small electronic set? If so, you wouldn't need a mic. A stereo line in into a single stereo track should be fine. If your asking if you could use one mic. to record an acoustic kit with good results, my opinion is yes. Mic placement is critical though and I would suggest a decent condenser mic. I would also prefer a second mic for the kick.
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marcus3
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/25 12:39:45
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yes but no audio out puts. so i was going mic it out.
so the basic i just need play it right for motown not bash the cymbals?
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Rothchild
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 08:01:37
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I think the point Jimmy rage was trying to make was that if you mic yourself up hitting one of these:  All you're going to get is the sound of rubber pads being thwacked.... (not very motown). The primary ingredients in 'the motown sound' are the player and the room, followed some way after by the equipment used. With a real kit, in a niceish room, with a decent player, you could try the 'dap kings' approach which is a single cardioid dynamic mic pointing in between the kick and snare a couple of feet back from the snare (this has the supposed advantage of making the toms 'fall away' as you play across them (away from the mic)). For a slightly posher sound you could try a 'Glyn Johns' technique with 2 mics (preferably LDCs but anything will do really). One over the drummers shoulder pointing somewhere between the kick drum pedal and the first tom. Using a tape measure / bit of string / mic lead, set it so it's about 60cm - 1m from the centre of the snare head, and then set the second mic up the same distance from the centre (hence the need for a tape measure / distance reference) of the snare head but to the right of the drummer and pointing in over the floor tom / ride cymbal. Child
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marcus3
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 15:30:37
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haha no that would not be motown haha
well i was wanting acustic set just no room :(
is there still way get acustic sound?
what if i ran the headphone output jack into amp than mic it into tascam?
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marcus3
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 15:51:29
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i wanted add only reason thought bout the yamaha dd65.
is try get real fill of drummer. so is it really importan right now?
or should i get like the yamaha s90xs or motif. anduse the drums on there?
than when i get bigger place get acustic one
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Rothchild
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 16:17:26
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With the dd65 thing you can use the headphone out to feed your soundcard and record the sounds out of the dd65 as audio, or you can use it as a MIDI controller for a drum machine in Sonar (Session Drummer 3, for instance) and use the 'motown' kit (as opposed to the 'rubber pad thwacking' one ;-)).
I notice you can get a pedal and other accessories which may help with the performance element.
Have fun! ;-)
Child
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marcus3
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 17:23:57
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but will i still get the sounds i desire.
Let say i got this with yamaha s90 xs.
or mm8 or korg m50 what ever one is better??
as long i can recreate acustick sounds. because that importan in motown.
But let say i got the yamaha dd65 hook midi in/out
to the keyboard and use there drum sounds will that be better? i mean with the s90 xs i get 4 outputs if chose to
separate my drums.
Any opions? what keyboard m50,s90 xs,mm8?
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marcus3
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 17:33:51
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just came up with even better idea i got steven slate drums. and if not mistaken its stand alone software
i can hook my yamaha up to my computer and headphone out of my computer to the tascam.
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jimmyrage
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 17:42:44
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If you really want that sound, my advise would be to buy an inexpensive drum set. The way they tuned drums back then ( and the playing style ) probably had more to do with the sound than anything. Thin batter heads, not much muffling . Use both bass drum heads with just thin felt strips for muffling. No pillows or foam or anything inside the drum. Bass drum and toms tuned a little on the tight side.
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marcus3
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 18:35:50
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If im wanting do motwn, the groove of the drums is were it starts than bass. that correct
but what i was thinking on doing for great drums sounds is output my steven slate drums.
and saves me money lol i dont got lot to spend right now lol
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jimmyrage
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 19:03:06
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You could do that via midi. I think I remember seeing some Motown kits in session drummer. Also I dare say that you could probably fine tune the Zep kit for a very convincing Motown sounding drum kit. Don't forget the ton of reverb.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 19:30:20
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Marcus... the best way, IF you play drums, is to get something.... either a one in all like the DD65 that has MIDI output or a small electronic kit with MIDI output. You can easily record the midi data and then use any of a number of standalone drum synths with sampled drums to get a variety of kits and sounds.
I fear that if you proceed with the DD65, you will be stuck with ONLY the sound it is capable of producing. OK... back up... I just read the specs again..... it has over 50 kits (internal preprogrammed sounds in audio) and it does have midi output. So using it with a drum synth would easily expand it's sounds.
The DD will only output the 50 internal kits as audio...and you're basically stuck with what you hear. IF you record the midi AND if you have a drum synth VST... you can easily change kits with a few clicks and many of the synths allow you to customize the kits, even to the point of tuning the heads and adjusting the damping and room acoustics and size.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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marcus3
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 19:35:08
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yea there is but to much install. well steven slate drums were rec from drums use in motwn.
i mean drums use in motown were just basic acoustic drums. at lease the earlie motown was.
now i did hear marvin gaye use rolands tb 808 i beleave before.. but for most was acoustic
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Rothchild
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 19:40:15
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However, and whichever, method you use to perform and capture your drums, get yourself a tambourine, and maybe a couple of shakers, and shuffle it all up a bit.
Can anyone else name a musician, noted for their virtuosity on the tambourine, other than Jack Ashford? ;-) If you want 'Motown' you gotta have the tambourine turned up!
Child
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marcus3
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 19:40:58
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Guitarhacker
Marcus... the best way, IF you play drums, is to get something.... either a one in all like the DD65 that has MIDI output or a small electronic kit with MIDI output. You can easily record the midi data and then use any of a number of standalone drum synths with sampled drums to get a variety of kits and sounds.
I fear that if you proceed with the DD65, you will be stuck with ONLY the sound it is capable of producing. OK... back up... I just read the specs again..... it has over 50 kits (internal preprogrammed sounds in audio) and it does have midi output. So using it with a drum synth would easily expand it's sounds.
The DD will only output the 50 internal kits as audio...and you're basically stuck with what you hear. IF you record the midi AND if you have a drum synth VST... you can easily change kits with a few clicks and many of the synths allow you to customize the kits, even to the point of tuning the heads and adjusting the damping and room acoustics and size.
right well see i was going use midi output and use steven slate for sounds.
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marcus3
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 20:00:38
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tambourine Rothchild
However, and whichever, method you use to perform and capture your drums, get yourself a tambourine, and maybe a couple of shakers, and shuffle it all up a bit.
Can anyone else name a musician, noted for their virtuosity on the tambourine, other than Jack Ashford? ;-) If you want 'Motown' you gotta have the tambourine turned up!
Child
well i was going buy tambourine and shakers when i get my yamaha dd65 haha and yes tambourine most importan drum in motown seeing as they use it lot
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bitflipper
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/26 23:38:58
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It sounds like this unit has a MIDI I/O. If so, record your performances as MIDI. That will give you the greatest number of options. I'm just guessing, but I suspect your S90 has better-sounding drum samples than the DD65. Once you've recorded the drum part as MIDI, you have many options. From the MIDI track you could drive a) the S90, b) the DD65, or c) Session Drummer or Dimension Pro. Use the 57 for singing along.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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quantumeffect
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/27 08:02:24
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+1 for the Tambourine. Also, there is a fair amount of info about the recording techniques used on the Motown recordings. Wrt the drums ... yes, a single overhead mic but with a snare and bass drum mic as needed (and as you say) all mixed down to 1 track. Do a search for Bob Olhsson. He was an engineer at Motown and likes to give out tidbits on the GS. http://bobolhsson.com/
Dave 8.5 PE 64, i7 Studio Cat, Delta 1010, GMS and Ludwig Drums, Paiste Cymbals "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson "His chops are too righteous." Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo
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Guitarhacker
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/27 08:50:07
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tambourine player.... Flo & Eddy... from the Turtles.... I don't recall which one actually played it but he was quite the showman with it. +1 to the idea of using some live percussion mixed with the synth drummer.... to make it sound real. Tambourine, morraccas, shakers and hi-hats really make a difference when played live and mixed with the synth stuff.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2010/12/27 08:52:17
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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marcus3
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/27 15:24:07
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well i dont really want use midi. just audio.
And Bob Olhsson ok i will nerver heard of him maybe i think did dont rember. but i look him up. thnx
And yes things do sound better that why i want to plus makes me grow as musican but on some should i get later like the hi hat? and just use steven slate for hi hats, kicks snares and toms. Use Tambourine, morraccas, shakers live.
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Philip
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/27 21:32:13
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+1 on this excellent thread and comments all:
Hopefully I'm non-offensive and on-topic: certainly not advertising (I hope):
Producerloops.com (and similar paid-royalty-grooves) ... offer the best *traditional-to-modern-Motown* band-for-the-buck, IMHO, JMO ... $30 and you'll out-Motown any R&B song-construction self-attempts ... and/or with mics and tamborines (which I love btw)
... IOWs, unless you specifically know and can emulate that artsey genre, you might end-up re-inventing the "old-school" wheels: both the difficult studio and the motown grooves ... from the ground up that may take a lot of devout effort, vanity, and vexation.
90% purchased samples vs. 90% Performing the motown-ish vibe ... not 50/50. Bit and others here are extremely gifted at performing (vs. sampling) and are quite meticulous in their art.
OTOH, Zendrums ($1000) may offer a sweet compromize ... they give sweet motown R&B sounds that translate to BFD drums and performances.
Again, sorry if I'm completely off (as I probably missed the point)
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marcus3
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/27 23:48:59
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Philip
+1 on this excellent thread and comments all:
Hopefully I'm non-offensive and on-topic: certainly not advertising (I hope):
Producerloops.com (and similar paid-royalty-grooves) ... offer the best *traditional-to-modern-Motown* band-for-the-buck, IMHO, JMO ... $30 and you'll out-Motown any R&B song-construction self-attempts ... and/or with mics and tamborines (which I love btw)
... IOWs, unless you specifically know and can emulate that artsey genre, you might end-up re-inventing the "old-school" wheels: both the difficult studio and the motown grooves ... from the ground up that may take a lot of devout effort, vanity, and vexation.
90% purchased samples vs. 90% Performing the motown-ish vibe ... not 50/50. Bit and others here are extremely gifted at performing (vs. sampling) and are quite meticulous in their art.
OTOH, Zendrums ($1000) may offer a sweet compromize ... they give sweet motown R&B sounds that translate to BFD drums and performances.
Again, sorry if I'm completely off (as I probably missed the point)
so wait you saying sample? that today r&b i think lol today R&B is on mostly drum machines there is no new motown be honest most of it fade way when micheal jackson took over and lot rnb today is called contemporay rnb. but playing live and recreating motown groove is lot better strengthens me as musican. lol
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bitflipper
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/28 11:24:26
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Old school R&B is still alive and well, you just have to look for it because they don't play it on the radio anymore. Here's some: Sharon Jones & the Dap-Kings. And here's another, although mostly (very good) covers of old tunes: Seal Soul Live
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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quantumeffect
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/28 21:52:00
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Dave 8.5 PE 64, i7 Studio Cat, Delta 1010, GMS and Ludwig Drums, Paiste Cymbals "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson "His chops are too righteous." Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/29 06:58:14
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Marcus, in post # 16 you say you're going to use midi, and in post # 21 you say
"well i dont really want use midi. just audio".
You're getting us confused.
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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marcus3
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/29 15:21:22
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i mean i dont want rec midi data just play and rec audio. live rec.
my bad lol
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bitflipper
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Re:recording drums single track or multiple help
2010/12/29 17:00:09
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Well, that still doesn't preclude recording MIDI, even if it's a live performance. Actually, that's the best way to capture MIDI drum data. You could even record the MIDI and audio simultaneously and decide later if you want to substitute some or all of the drum sounds with samples.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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