Well, I've spent some more time with X1

Yes.

This roll out has completely driven a wedge between the user group.

There are the people who realize that they can work faster in X1, and there are other people just scratching here head thinking "really?"

Honestly, and I mean this sincerely, I believe both parties are correct.

Which leaves me to conclude that some people must have been working incredibly slowly in previous versions.

I have a feeling both user groups are going to end up working at what I'd call, for lack of a good description "medium".

best regards,
mike

Bub


Working ok for me. The only thing I've run in to so far is it doesn't play nice with Guitar Rig 4. It changes your track interleave settings from stereo to mono without asking and I've reported the bug online through the proper channels.

Other than that, I've been running it for almost a week now and I haven't run in to a single problem. No lockups, no dropouts, my 8.5 projects use significantly less CPU.

I didn't even do a fresh install. I just installed it along side 8.5 and let it do it's thing.

All that being said, I lean more toward the audio side and not the midi side of Sonar, so I can't comment on all the midi functions that everyone is talking about that are harder to work with.

The other thing I've noticed, this is just my opinion and I could be way off, but it seems like X1 is geared more toward using clips and loops than 8.5. I never used loops in my projects until X1 and 1/2 hour after my first try I had almost an entire song done and I made two of my own clips and incorporated them in to the project.

Good luck guys! I hope things get worked out for you and everyone having issues.

Bub

I use a lot of loops and I don't see anything in X1 that makes it better than 8.5.3 and since it takes more doing to get around, I suspect it's worse. I do all of things that one can do with a DAW, full tracks, MIDI, loops, drum replacement and all of this things were faster in 8.5.3 and in a couple of cases aren't even possible in X1.

Yeah the community seems to be split into the following groups.

Loopers, hate it. 
Midi users - hate it
Console View users - Hate it
XP/Vista Crowd - numerous problems

And there is....

Track view users - love it
Audio recording users - love it
Win 7 crowd - love it
Me - I love it.

Which leaves you with people going back to 8.5.3 and people moving to X1.

Something for everybody.

For the XP VISTA CROWD? X1 is just  just plain disastrous!  I use a lot of midi and outboard gear as well, and the flow of 8.5.3 was just plain delicious for songwriters and producers as well. I bought X1 expecting the more goodies and innovation but this is a VERY VERY bad Pro Tools  imitation that is absolutely useless to XP and Vista users. Lets face it CW...not everybody is going to jump on Windows 7..ok? So you may just want to come up with a 8.5.4 Producer Edition  for XP and Vista Users adding the newer stuff you put in X1. How bout that?

Ambivalent, at best.

Maybe a step back is in order {for perspective not software version}

Lurking in the forums since Sonar 6, I have learned a great deal, mostly from experienced pro users who contribute often and usually graciously, to the discussion or problem at hand {that and RTFM}.

It seems surreal to see some of these vastly knowledgeable individuals leading the torch bearing mob to burn the "monster" that is X1.

Really?

Working in the IT industry, I've heard this type of wailing and gnashing of teeth before... {yes it was me}. The examples that come to mind include when Mac moved from version 9 to OSX, Windows ME {shiver}, and the change from Win XP to Vista.

The complaints sounded much the same... it looks bad, some things are missing, it won't do the things it did before etc..and the outcry was loudest from the power users, the user "lite" didn't have near the problems and neither did the pro's once they got through the process of familiarizing themselves with the new interface.

The harsh truth was we had to learn a new system, actions that were done in our sleep now required more time and yes, occasionally consulting a dog eared copy of TFM. That may be why the new users are not having such a bad time of it, they came in with no preconceived notions and in general seem to be treating it as learning a new application.

So why was the change necessary? I can't speak for the bakers, but it's a well know fact in the OS world that you can only go so long bolting on fixes, glueing on additional functionality and cramming in extra menus and buttons before there is a significant loss of cohesiveness and uniformity of function, and in some cases leaves you with problems that can't be fixed without causing other problems. Surely it's the same for an application as comprehensive and technically complicated as Sonar.

As Sonar users how many times have you read a review of our favorite DAW and seen the raves over available functions that ends with something like "arguably the best Windows based DAW program, our only complaint is the clunky UI".

A read through the X1 mind map (pdf version sorry Noel) is very illuminating as to the why's and how's of what's been done and in some sections it's a very good mini manual.

In the end maybe it would be easier to look at X1 as a complete rewrite as opposed to an upgrade, yes a rewrite with a few bugs but also with great potential and forward looking compatibility with new OS improvements and new hardware capabilities.

I agree that those of you that are talented enough to actually make money in the music industry should not use X1 as your bread and butter...yet. But few of us would be here if Cakewalk wasn't the type of company that listened to it's users and corrected problems as they arise, after all without the .5 and .3  Sonar 8 had issues too.

So here's hoping that the sniping, condemnation and threats to move to other products will subside and this forum returns to the helpful, supportive and friendly place it has been in the past. Even if we have to deal with being noobs again.

OUCH!.... sorry I fell climbing down from the soapbox. Happy New Year all.

A1MixMan

dke


 There's quite a bit I like about X1, but there are an equal amount of changes that really annoy me such as the dang multidock that keeps trying to grab plugin windows when I move them around.

Dan

One of the problems with X1 is that it is a radical change from 8.5 in doing things and I think this is a perfect example. If you use the multidock, and screen sets, in the way it's intended, then you shouldn't have to move plugin windows around. That's the whole point. Not having to move windows around constantly. I think once people get there head around the way to do things, they will wonder why it wasn't like this all along. Don't think too hard, remember, it's made to be easier.
 
And of course there are adjustments to be made, and even Cakewalk have said so, and they have plans for this. Which is good, because X1 is, or will be, a great piece of software.
 
 

That's all fine and dandy, but the dock you should not force you too use it if you don't want too.  Maybe when it's made to act more consistently I'll use it, but I never used the Tab's that prior versions had either so I doubt it.  ScreenSets are okay and I use them but they need some work as well.  I can overlook the things that anoy me though, the biggest problem right now for me personally is the stability, and I'd even let that slide for now if it didn't take the Sonar .exe so long to time out and actually exit so I could start up again.  That's one more thing that's gone backward far as I'm concerned, 8.5.3 I could start right back up on the rare occasion it would crash.
 
 I'm sure in the end X1 will be great, but right now it's more trouble than it's worth for me, we'll see after a rev or 2 how it's looking.
 
Dan

Loopers, hate it. Midi users - hate it Console View users - Hate it XP/Vista Crowd - numerous problems And there is.... Track view users - love it Audio recording users - love it Win 7 crowd - love it

How about me? Track view user, never use the console, rarely use loops, use midi a lot, use Win 7, do lots of audio recording, video soundtracks...  And frankly, as an exclusive track view user, I think the track view headers are a big step back.

I guess since I'm split on all those items, I'm a love it/hate it guy.  Which is close. Overall on balance, I have no improvement with X1. Some things are better, some worse. Lots of new bugs. New learning curve. Essentially, It's not Sonar. It's a new DAW. Trouble is, I didn't want a new DAW, I wanted Sonar with no bugs. If I wanted a new DAW I could've gone to any number of others.