Helpful ReplyHardware Recommendation

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Hoppy
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2011/01/05 19:01:33 (permalink)

Hardware Recommendation

Noob with growing pains here....
 
I have just installed Sonar X1 Studio and was having trouble getting the sound to work.  I searched the forum and from the information I gathered I tweaked a few settings and got the program to produce sound.  However I'm getting a Rice Krispys (you know... snap-crackle-pop) when I play an instrument loop or a single note.  After more searching I realize that I need to purchase some additional hardware as I only have the RealTek sound that is integrated into the computer MoBo.  The search feature didn't really locate anything hardware recommendations of value for me as I found many of them are more than a few years old. 
 
So what I need are some recommendations for a sound card or interface to produce good sound without the RK's!!! 
 
Generally speaking, I intend to use the software to produce loops that I can practice drumming to, and I can see little use for it beyond that... the main focus will be to enhance drum practice on a pad or play along on a Roland TD-20SX kit. Currently I have the X1 software installed on a desktop but may purchase a laptop to get the the "package" closer to the TD-20 set and would like to port it through the TD-20 module for play along.  I do not intend to produce full scale music with the software (really just thinking rythms here).
 
Current computer setup is as follows:
GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD5 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard
Windows Vista Ultimate 64-Bit
Intel i7-920 2.70GHz CPU
6GB Corsair Dominator DDR3 RAM
WD 300GB VelociRaptor HD
Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2 PCI vid card
LG DVD
 
SOUND:
Realtek High Definition Audio
ATI High Definition Audio Device
 
Thanks,
Hop
 
#1
bmdaustin
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/05 19:04:45 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Look at any of the Cakewalk/Roland interfaces that have MIDI and audio I/O. M-Audio makes the 2496 which is very popular, too, and inexpensive.

Paul Baker
Baker's Jazz And More
http://www.bakersjazzandmore.com
#2
CJaysMusic
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/05 19:18:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Hoppy, here is my lisy of audio interface/sound cards
Recommended sound cards

www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
Audio Blog
#3
Hoppy
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/05 19:22:12 (permalink)
Thanks.

I saw that "compatibility" table while I was searching but got overwhelmed by all the products on it and wasn't sure what functions well for the forum users.  I'll look at the M-Audio and see if any more recommendations are forthcoming... 
  
 
EDIT: Thanks CJ I'll check that link as well.
post edited by Hoppy - 2011/01/05 19:25:01
#4
Crg
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/05 19:30:08 (permalink)
Hey Hoppy, make sure you have unlocked Deminsion Pro with the reg code. Until you do so it will make noise like that on your system. and run Sonar as an administrator if you aren't already.

Craig DuBuc
#5
HumbleNoise
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/05 19:35:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Also the laptop will need a USB or firewire interface. The 2496 needs a slot on your MOBO but great basic card..
post edited by HumbleNoise - 2011/01/05 19:37:06

Humbly Yours

Larry

Sonar X2 x64
MAudio 2496
Yamaha MG 12/4
Roland XV-88
Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram
NVidia 9800 GTX
Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
#6
Hoppy
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/05 20:04:12 (permalink)
Crg


Hey Hoppy, make sure you have unlocked Deminsion Pro with the reg code. Until you do so it will make noise like that on your system. and run Sonar as an administrator if you aren't already.
 
Craig,
I see that I have Dimension LE available in my menu (Insert > Soft Synth > Dimension LE (x64)Dimension LE)  but not "Pro".  I did the basic/full install so I'm not sure where to locate that particular plug-in file or if that is something I have to run down on the Roland site as a download?
 
EDIT: Looks like that plug-in is available in the "Producer" product and not in Studio :-(
post edited by Hoppy - 2011/01/05 20:33:46
#7
Crg
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/05 20:41:37 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Hoppy


Crg


Hey Hoppy, make sure you have unlocked Deminsion Pro with the reg code. Until you do so it will make noise like that on your system. and run Sonar as an administrator if you aren't already.
 
Craig,
I see that I have Dimension LE available in my menu (Insert > Soft Synth > Dimension LE (x64)Dimension LE)  but not "Pro".  I did the basic/full install so I'm not sure where to locate that particular plug-in file or if that is something I have to run down on the Roland site as a download?
 
EDIT: Looks like that plug-in is available in the "Producer" product and not in Studio :-(


Okay, You didn't have to enter a reg # for LE I suppose.  The realtek cards are problemmatic. I have one on the PC I installed X1 on and I get the same noise. Right click on the X1 icon on your desktop and choose run as an Adminstrator on the drop down list. See if that clears it up.

Craig DuBuc
#8
Hoppy
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/05 20:51:09 (permalink)
I gave it a shot and the first loop sounded OK, but then I ran a more "complex" loop and it showed up.  So I guess I need to order up some hardware ASAP.  Thanks for that tip on the right click in the Start menu, I didn't know all those options were even available!!!
#9
Hoppy
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/05 20:52:41 (permalink)
HA!  I just hope that in the end this is easier to use than the old R8 I've been avoiding!
#10
Crg
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/05 21:02:02 (permalink)
Hoppy


HA!  I just hope that in the end this is easier to use than the old R8 I've been avoiding!


R8? Things have changed since Vista. You should consider getting Win 7, it runs much smoother. But once again, the realtek soundcard has to be considered. New hardware and Win 7 would be the way to go. As well as a beast of a computer with more power than you'd ever need. DAW's are funny that way.

Craig DuBuc
#11
mudgel
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/05 22:09:13 (permalink)
If you stick with VISTA make sure to install Service PAck 2 as it makes a HUGE difference for any audio work.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64,
PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz.
Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2.
Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub.
Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX.
Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor.
Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
#12
ampfixer
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/06 00:02:03 (permalink)
The Cakewalk (by Roland) UA-25EX has been working well for me. If you can get by with 2 in 2 out and are not planning 96k recording it should do the trick for a very reasonable price. It does 96k but not full duplex. You have to physically switch it for recording or playback when using it in 96k mode. There's a lot of bang for the buck and with USB 2 it has never caused any trouble for me.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
#13
Hoppy
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/06 16:21:27 (permalink)
Roland R-8 Human Rythm Composer.  It was the high end drum machine in the late 80's..
http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/r8.php

It was pretty easy to use, has a step sequencer that I'm looking for (and available in Sonar) but early on my unit had a problem with the tempo settings (it would bounce up to 220bpm when making adjustments) and Roland couldn't *ahem* duplicate the issue so it never got resolved.  I used it for 2 small video projects, and to sequence some simple rhythm tracks that I would practice along to. Unfortunately I got frustrated with the tempo issue and up on the shelf its been for better than decades!


I found the UA-25EX for a pretty reasonable price - $148 from Genesis Technologies, Inc.  Too good to be true?
http://www.genesis-technologies.com/cart/Education/Roland/Roland_UA_25EXCW_USB_Audio_and_MIDI_Interface_p4006.html


I have a notion of the role of a sound card and I have a notion of one of these audio interface devices. My understanding is these are I/O devices allowing you to run stuff into the Sonar software to record like a mic or guitar for instance.  Does a device like that function or act in place of a sound card?  I think where I'm getting confused is that I don't plan on bringing in other instruments that are not part of Sonar/software plug-ins into the picture... That is, I just plan on making some simple tracks that I can play along to, like in this demo (at the 6:00 + min mark) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AkIZvZ5aXA&feature=related   

That's why the sound card route like the M-Audio 2496 seems more appealing (or understandable from my vanatage point).  However I will likely get a laptop shortly and move the software to it and want to make sure that what ever device I get will ultimately work there as well and obviously the M-Audio 2496 won't. So I just want to be sure that something like the UA-25EX will manage the sound appropriately so that I can sequence something and slap the headphones on and go to it!

Sorry if it sounds like really rudimentary or repetitious questions... but I really appreciate the feedback


#14
Crg
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/06 16:52:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
That's why the sound card route like the M-Audio 2496 seems more appealing (or understandable from my vanatage point). However I will likely get a laptop shortly and move the software to it and want to make sure that what ever device I get will ultimately work there as well and obviously the M-Audio 2496 won't. So I just want to be sure that something like the UA-25EX will manage the sound appropriately so that I can sequence something and slap the headphones on and go to it!

 
You want to get away from using your onboard soundcard mostly. The terms interface and soundcard are somewhat misleading.
Using a USB seperate interface is best for your needs. It will route sound in and out, bypass's the sound card and will plug into a laptop. I'm not familiar with the 2496, I assume it's a PCI card. They work well also.
Your static sounds should clear up using either. I mistook your static to be something else. I haven't gotten the fuzz out of mine.
The amount of tweaking necessary to track down the problem with onboard cards can be a real headache and I never have acheived good latency with one.
The UA-25EX should do it for you.

Craig DuBuc
#15
Hoppy
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/06 18:23:45 (permalink)
Thanks ... that's just what I needed to hear and now I feel I understand the terms better and will be able to pick an interface that will be suitable for me.

This seems like a good forum; other forums I'm a member of aren't the most "delicate" when it comes to the noob questions like the ones I posed.  Thanks to all for the help as well and suggestions. 
#16
ampfixer
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/06 23:53:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Hey Hoppy,

With X1 and your outboard digital drums the interface is the ticket. Something like the UA-25EX or other desktop box will give you the most flexibility. Crg explained it pretty well. A soundblaster for instance is a limited interface card with sound generating modules on board. You can trigger it's sound modules and/or pass through and trigger X1 soft synths like session drummer or the TTS-1 general midi synth. It has audio in and out also. An interface box like the UA-25 has no sound modules on board but this is not an issue since you will have lots of sounds to trigger. It does give you higher quality inputs that can use high impedance devices like a bass or guitar, balanced inputs for dynamic mic's and phantom power for condenser mic's. You also get midi in/out and other features so you could program a backing track if you can't play it. You can also import midi drum tracks, songs etc. IF you want to do non percussion stuff like piano, synths and bass synth from within Sonar you'll likely want some sort of other controller like a keyboard. But I confess that triggering synth bass and obscure instruments with the V drums is a blast.

I just got a friend set up with an older version of Sonar. He's a drummer with 2 acoustic kits and a Roland V drum kit. He's really digging all the options he now has at his disposal. He can use all his kits as is or use the V drums to trigger session drummer samples. Once he's comfortable (may take a while) the plan is to sample his Pearl and Milestone kits and trigger them with the V drum unit. Your imagination and cash flow are the only limiting factors.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
#17
Hoppy
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/09 20:27:41 (permalink)
Thanks for the follow-up.

I did make it down to Guitar Center and had them do a price match on the UA-25 EX from the other place I linked to.  Just loaded the drivers, cabled it, and make some setting changes in Studio and BINGO! ..... works just as well as you all said it would.

Now I gotta' play around with the software and start figuring it all out.  I wish I could just sit on the manual and learn by ass-mosis but I guess this really is where the fun starts??? 
#18
submarin
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/09 20:39:26 (permalink)
You have a nice machine with a very good MoBo, why going USB??

If you invest a little bit more then get a RME Hammerfall PCI express, they have the best ASIO drivers on the planet!!!

I have a RME Digiface and easily record 24 tracks with no hicups or smth,

then the brilliant coded ASIO driver gives you low latencys you would never expect, down to 0,07 ms!
I´m running a similar machine like you and can work with projects with like 80 tracks tons of vsti´s and vst´s and easily float with 6ms. I´m even forgettin of changing the buffersize, just no need!

Check this:
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_multiface_2.php

in more than 8 years in almost daily use my digiface never left me...

i7 4770, 32 GB Ram, W8.1 64bit, RME Digiface, 3x RME Adi DS, Uad2 Quad, , Sonar Platinum, Cubase 8 pro, Reaper , Ableton Live
www.m2-productions.com
#19
Hoppy
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/09 21:11:48 (permalink)
I plan on getting a laptop to physically move closer to the V-drums.  I don't plan on recording, I just wanted to make some loops to practice with. I get really tired of the metronome, and this will allow me to put some basic rhythm against a click to make practice a little more focused. 

I did check out the RME Hammerfall HDSP Cardbus which looks prett cool.... so does the Babyface. 
I'll keep those in mind when I do the hardware change if needed. 
#20
Crg
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/10 08:13:51 (permalink)
I wish I could just sit on the manual and learn by ass-mosis but I guess this really is where the fun starts???

 


Craig DuBuc
#21
Katie_Katie
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/10 10:11:52 (permalink)
It is always good to practice, and if that is your goal you are on the right track with the above suggestions.   Heck, even Max Weinberg had some timing issues while with the E-Street gang.   I also note that a friend of mine, Keith Killgo who's been playing for a looong time, still packs and plays his pad. 
 
Anyway, for your needs I would suggest the M-Audio Fast Track USB - either the M-Audio Fast Track Guitar or the M-Audio Fast Track Pro.   Both have very respectable specs and are as clean as my PCI 2496's  When I say "clean", I mean signal to noise, total harmonic distortion, and things like that.   When I am on the road I use the Fast Track Pro.  But my needs are most likely a little more than you need.  You can pick up the Fast Track Guitar or about $100  or the Pro for about $200.  They throw in a version of Pro Tools Essential (basically a stripped down and *barely functional* version of PT LE - what is DD thinking??).      
 
The good thing about the M-Audio USB is three-fold.   First, it is USB-powered.  No need to drag a power supply cube around.   Second, you can use in on your desktop computer and laptop.  Third, for your drumming pleasure, the headset audio is *very* good.   
 
While I am here, I'll also suggest some cans.   The Fast Track has a 1/8" headphone plug.  You can choose from many cans, but I suggest you pick up a pair of Sony 7506s (You can read about them all over the net).  The 7506 come with a 1/8" plug (and an adapter to 1/4").   Price..about $100.   And, they fold up nicely.
 
Good Luck in your choice and your playing.
post edited by Katie_Katie - 2011/01/10 10:21:27

Katherine  

#22
LANEY
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/10 10:22:57 (permalink)
I love the Sony's too.  Not only do they fold up nicely they sound great too!



i7/16GB ram
Win 7 x64
SONAR Platinum Producer x64
VS-700 C&R

Octa-Capture and VS-100 for live recording
#23
Hoppy
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Re:Hardware Recommendation 2011/01/10 16:24:17 (permalink)
Thanks for those suggestions.

When I got the TD-20 SX set I also got some Beyerdynamic DT-770M headphones. I really wanted good sound and to make sure I heard as little "stick" noise as possible. So those cans really fit the bill nicely for me.  I think the term silent practice with e-drums is a bit of an exagerration to say the least... sometimes I think I should go back to air drumming! 
#24
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