cheez
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Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
I've pushed the Inspector midi track volume to the max = 127. My VST instrument's volume is only halfway (it can go much further). After I increase the volume WITHIN the VST, upon playback, the volume dropped down again. Sonar's volume is still at 127. Read/write parameters are off.
How do I increase the volume of the instrument further within the VST? The volume can't go further!
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chrisharbin
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 01:28:56
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so you are talking about the "gain" (which is a trim of sorts) and the actual slider volume and between them you can't get enough volume? BTW, what plug is it?
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cheez
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 01:32:24
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I mean the actual volume slider in Sonar. It's already pushed to 127. The VSTi (Superior Drummer 2 and Kontakt) volume is nowhere near their max. I can push the VSTi's volume further giving me more volume. But once I playback, the volume in the VSTi drops down. The volume slider in Sonar is still 127.
127 of the volume slider does not correlate with the VSTi volume.
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lorneyb2
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 01:50:37
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First thing to do is to go into preferences (P) - PROJECT- MID and uncheck the ZERO CONTROLLERS WHEN PLAY STOPS under other options. This may solve the problems of not retaining settings.
When you move the volume slider in Sonar is the volume slider in Kontakt moving?
Is the project you are working on your own creation and if so what did you create it with(keyboard or via prv) or a downloaded/imported midi file?
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chrisharbin
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 02:09:53
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Hmmmm, I'm hoping lorneyb2 has the answer because I don't have that issue with kontakt or SD (plenty of volume and nothing like you describe)
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cheez
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 02:30:26
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When my volume slider moves, the volume within Kontakt doesn't. I'll try out the preferences settings and get back.
Project is my own - midi input via keyboard. But now I'm mixing. So basically using the mouse the get the right volume settings.
I'm getting sufficient volume. But I realized that within Kontakt, the volume is far from max. Which mean I can get even more.
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cheez
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 02:42:43
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OK. Confirmed that unchecking the "zero controllers when play stops" does nothing. The volume within Kontakt still snaps back once I hit play.
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cheez
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 02:51:42
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I want to correct myself here. When I move the volume slider in Sonar, the volume slider in Kontakt moves as well. But 127 in Sonar correlates to half-way point in Kontakt.
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chrisharbin
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:00:01
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I'm puzzled. There has to be a logical reason. When you say within Kontakt still snaps back once I hit play are you talking about the channel volume or kontakt itself? For some reason this is a crappy pic but on K4 you see a gain at the top and of course a volume control at the bottom. This is an example in "instrument" mode, are you working with more than one channel and having the issue? 
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cheez
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:06:53
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Yes, there must be a reason. Thanks for taking your time to help me figure this out! Really appreciate it!
I have multuple instruments loaded within Kontakt 3.5. In the Channel Strip, I move the volume slider to 127, and the volume slider within Kontakt (the instrument itself) is at the halfway mark. Moving the gain in the channel strip changes the volume but doesn't do anything to the volume slider within the Kontakt instrument. This is the Kontakt instrument itself (when you double click the VST and Kontakt shows up). I can push the volume in the Kontakt instrument much further resulting in more volume. But once I playback, volume INSIDE the Kontakt instruments goes back to the halfway mark. The volume slider in the channel strip remains at 127.
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brundlefly
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:07:25
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MIDI volume 127 corresponds to 0dB in Kontakt. This is peculiar to Kontakt. In order to run Kontak above 0dB, you need to right-click the MIDI Volume control, and choose Disable Control. Then you can set a higher level in Kontakt, and it will remain where you set it.
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cheez
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:08:05
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Also, this happens for ALL the Kontakt instruments, not just one.
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guitarmikeh
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:22:03
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look at it this way.
you got the midi volume in sonar for Kontact. this relates to midi info only.
you got the volume slider inside the kontack synth. that relates to how much audio goes out of the synth to sonar. you also have the gain control that will send more signal through your chain.
and you got the volume of the output of audio from kontact going to sonar on sonar.
there should be plenty of volume to get the loudness you want. if you cant something is wrong.
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lorneyb2
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:25:08
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In Kontakt go to OPTIONS - ENGINE and check if top setting is -6db or 0db. If it is -6db then do the following:
First save your instrument as a preset so you can get it back. To do the following step you will have to close Kontakt and bring it back up again. Go to the options and change it to 0db to see if you get the increased volume you want.
Do you have the Master control bar active in Kontakt? There is a Master Editor which controls the overall output volume there as well.
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StepD
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:25:51
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cheez
Also, this happens for ALL the Kontakt instruments, not just one.
Try this in Kontakt for each instrument: Go into instrument edit mode (wrench button) Click Instrument Options button Click the Controller tab Uncheck Accept Standard Controllers for Volume and Pan
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RockDr.Evil
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:26:18
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cheez
OK. Confirmed that unchecking the "zero controllers when play stops" does nothing. The volume within Kontakt still snaps back once I hit play.
I've experienced this with Kontakt. In Kontakt,go to "Instrument Options (two little "gears" icon) found at the top left of the individual instrument module(s). Choose the "Controller" dialog and de-tick "Accept standard controllers for Volume and Pan" This will stop the volume slider from reverting upon playback. This is selectable for each individual module,so you may have to do this for each module that the volume is reverting in. This has happened to me in the past and this provided the solution. It's weird because it just started happening out of nowhere one night. Now that I have a fresh start in X1 it doesn't occur at all. It shouldn't happen even with Kontakt's default setting,but for some haphazard reason sometimes it does. You can apply this setting to eliminate the frustration of the instrument levels constantly reverting. Also,the latest version of Kontakt.(4.1.3.4125) is available if you don't have it already.
post edited by RockDr.Evil - 2011/01/09 03:30:45
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RockDr.Evil
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:28:17
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Up,StepD already said it...
post edited by RockDr.Evil - 2011/01/09 03:31:35
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chrisharbin
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:37:43
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Why do I get the feeling the "midi" channel is being conceived differently than the actual VOL channel (sorry if I'm not wording it correctly)
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StepD
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:39:59
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RockDr.Evil
This has happened to me in the past and this provided the solution.
It's weird because it just started happening out of nowhere one night.
Now that I have a fresh start in X1 it doesn't occur at all.
It shouldn't happen even with Kontakt's default setting,but for some haphazard reason sometimes it does.
You can apply this setting to eliminate the frustration of the instrument levels constantly reverting.
Yeah, it's really annoying. I remember it was confusing me because it doesn't do it if you use a simple instrument track, but when you do a split instrument and use midi track volume controls, Kontakt starts responding.
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brundlefly
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:40:43
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It's weird because it just started happening out of nowhere one night. It starts happening when you move the MIDI volume control on a track in SONAR. That activates the control so that its value is sent whenever you start playback. Disabling this control has the same effect as telling Kontakt to ignore it, but has the advantage that you can still use SONAR to set the Pan if you want.
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StepD
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:47:10
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brundlefly
It's weird because it just started happening out of nowhere one night.
It starts happening when you move the MIDI volume control on a track in SONAR. That activates the control so that its value is sent whenever you start playback. Disabling this control has the same effect as telling Kontakt to ignore it, but has the advantage that you can still use SONAR to set the Pan if you want.
btw, your suggestion to choose Disable Control on the SONAR track isn't working here. It keeps reverting every time I move the slider. Maybe there's another step.
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cheez
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:47:46
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Thanks guys! Really appreciate it. Will check it out and get back again.
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brundlefly
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 03:51:27
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It keeps reverting every time I move the slider. If you mean the MIDI Volume slider in the track header, yes, moving it will reactivate it. If you want to be able to run Kontakt above 0dB, you need to disable the control in the MIDI track, and avoid moving it again. Use only the slider in the Kontak interface to adjust output volume.
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StepD
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 04:00:36
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brundlefly
It keeps reverting every time I move the slider.
If you mean the MIDI Volume slider in the track header, yes, moving it will reactivate it. If you want to be able to run Kontakt above 0dB, you need to disable the control in the MIDI track, and avoid moving it again. Use only the slider in the Kontak interface to adjust output volume.
That might be do-able, because I just checked and the track control only reverts if you physically change the volume slider with the mouse. But it doesn't revert using a volume envelope. Interesting.
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chrisharbin
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 04:08:02
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confused. If we are talking about the "midi" track (which in theory controls the velocity, yes??) are you saying that is what is snapping back, or the "gain" or the "volume"
Sorry, just not quite following
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StepD
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 04:11:05
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chrisharbin
confused. If we are talking about the "midi" track (which in theory controls the velocity, yes??) are you saying that is what is snapping back, or the "gain" or the "volume"
Sorry, just not quite following
Volume CC7
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StepD
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 04:26:37
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StepD
That might be do-able, because I just checked and the track control only reverts if you physically change the volume slider with the mouse. But it doesn't revert using a volume envelope. Interesting.
Now I know it's getting late, because what would be the point of having a volume envelope that doesn't control the instument's volume? I'd use velocity for that if volume control was disabled. We're just talking about the overall static volume of an instrument. Time for some Z's.
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cheez
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 04:40:50
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Thanks. Changing the options in Kontakt did the trick. But indeed, that really doesn't make sense. I do need to control the volume of some instruments on the fly (automation) as well. Some I can overcome using mod wheel settings.
I guess I may have to play around with the gain knob. Even with the volume slider to 127 and gain knob to the max, it still doesn't hit the max in Kontakt.
Thanks everybody for helping in this. Really appreciate all the help.
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brundlefly
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 12:18:20
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StepD
StepD
That might be do-able, because I just checked and the track control only reverts if you physically change the volume slider with the mouse. But it doesn't revert using a volume envelope. Interesting.
Now I know it's getting late, because what would be the point of having a volume envelope that doesn't control the instument's volume? I'd use velocity for that if volume control was disabled. We're just talking about the overall static volume of an instrument. Time for some Z's.
I think you're confusing MIDI Volume with Audio Volume. If you're adding a "Volume" envelope to an Instrument track, that's automating the audio volume of the track output, and will not affect the synth's master volume output, which, as you pointed out is controlled by CC7, and which will be sent (and will reset Kontakt's output to a maximum of 0dB) if you split the Instrument track, and automate MIDI volume. This is another reason to use audio volume rather than MIDI volume for mixing. Audio track volume always responds the same to an envelope in terms of how the loudness changes with dB. But there's no standard for how much of a change in volume you should get with a changes in CC7, so it's different for every instrument, and it can be different at different places in the MIDI scale.
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brundlefly
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Re:Changing volume of VST (stuck at a certain volume)
2011/01/09 12:40:07
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I guess I may have to play around with the gain knob. Even with the volume slider to 127 and gain knob to the max, it still doesn't hit the max in Kontakt. Track Gain will not affect the output level indicated by Kontak. That amplification is happening at the input to the track. But the bottom line here, as guitarmikeh suggested earlier, is that it should not be necessary in most cases to run Kontakt's output level above 0dB to get a satisfactory level for any synth part in a mix. And with 32-bit output from most synths, there's no need to run a synth at max output to improve s/n ratio. You can always increase the input gain or output volume of the track above 0dB if you need more volume for that part in the mix than you got from the synth, and there will be no meaningfull degradation in the sound quality. In fact, my guess would be that running Kontakt above 0dB does exactly that, artificially raising the output volume above what was originally sampled.
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