Tips to get a big sound out of a little guitar speaker...

Ive searched and searched, but alas found nothing...
I have a marshall mg15 combo and love the sound the little amp gets...  i have tried to mic it with a few different mics and always the sound is so thin, my first guess is that its the speaker...
Now i did spend hours with each of the 3 mics to get the closest to the true sound as i could... but it still sounds really thin... I am running through a Focusrite Saffire 6 at 48khz/24bit...
 
ive tried close micing then far mic, off axis, on axis...  but it still sounds thin, and i did also tweak the amp settings to try and squeeze some fatness into the mic...
i tried mic'ing my friends amp with a 12 inch speaker and it sounded so damn nice with just one mic...
 
my guess has always been that its the speaker, it cant reproduce the lower frequencies as good as a large speaker...
 
anyone have any tips on how to get a big sound from a little speaker with 1 mic?
 
the setup i have now is EV PL84 mic into Focusrite Saffire into Sonar 8.5.3PE...
 
thanks much
 
miguel

I was afraid of that... i do have the gain set back a little bit, im going for more of a crunch sound than a really distorted sound...
right now the settings are
Gain - 6 - 7
Bass - 10
Mid - 6
Treb - 7 - 8

it sounds nice on its own... if i had the monry for an sm57 id buy one, but right now im broke... for 80 bucks i can get a raven rg20 which also sounds pretty nice but has a 12 inch speaker...

oh well i guess ill have to try and scrape some money together...
thanks

miguel

I am not familiar with your amp, so this really is just a suggestion based on all the amps I do know. There are a lot of players that use small amps in the studio, and they prefer to use them over large amps because they can hit the sweet spot at a much lower volume.

1: Solid State amps "generally" don't have a sweet spot that can compare to a tube amps sweet spot. Have you ever tried a Fender Pro JR in the studio - WOW! That is not to suggest your amp cannot do it, it is just a general comment.

2: The mid range is what controls the thickness, not the bass. Again - this is a general reference but what makes a guitar stand out is the mid-range, because that is where the guitar lives. It is common - when playing a guitar by itself to scoop the mids to it sounds better. You get beefy lows and cutting highs and because it is by itself it sounds great. BUT - when mixed in a song it won't work. The bass and kick jump on those beefy lows, and the highs are what contribute to it's "thin" sound.

Try bringing down the lows and highs just a little (down 2 - 3 steps each) and raise the mids - one step at a time. It won't sounds as good on it's own, but you may find it adds the thickness when recording.

I will also agree that you should use a 57 (you don't need $80 for a used 57'). They just sound great on electric guitars. Keep the mic off center (I like to set it half way between the cone and the outside of the speaker) and pull it back about 2 inches to start.

Test, test, test. Every adjustment of tone or mic placement, record a little to see how it affected your guitar. You will be amazed at the differences.

Good luck!
 
EDIT: I just checked online and noticed this amp has an 8" speaker. That is certainly going to contribute to a thin sound. But please - still play around with mic placement and tone settings. You need to get more mid (unless the mid on that amp is unusable) into the recording chain.

The solid state circuits tend to produce odd order harmonics (thin & hollow sounding)  whereas the tube circuits produce the fat sounding even order harmonics.... It's actually a combination of the output tunes and the output transformer's electrical characteristics that do this...

I have a Boogie 22watt 100% tube amp and a Vox hybrid.... tube front end with solid state output.... there is a huge difference in the sound quality.... the tubes win every time, but that doesn't mean the Vox doesn't sound good because it does.

I have experimented with miking amps and so far have always fallen back to my POD2 direct when it's time to record.


in your case, you have to use the amp you have.... so you've tried the mic placement, now try the EQ thing as well and by all means use a good mic. A Shure 57 or 58 is the industry standard for miking amps on stage.  So using one should get an accurate sound. Placement matters. As does the tone/EQ settings of the amp & guitar. Looks like more experimentation is ahead for you.

I have guitar rig 4 essential which is what ive been using from the beginning, i just felt that it was time to try with a real amp...

andunfortunately the new mg15 has an 8 inch speaker... i have the old mg15 that has a 6.5" speaker... 
i had the mids at 10 and it still sounded thin...
in any case im gonna save up and buy a good amp and a good mic...
ideally i would want a peavey windsor studio i had one before but was forced to sell it (i hate myself for it!)...
but i guess ill use guitar rig for now...

and about layering guitar tracks, when i recorded my friends song we used 1 mic and 1 track for each guitar part and it sounded huge!  so i know its possible...

thanks for thye tips guys.
miguel