yorolpal
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New Bizarre Latency issue with X1...MAYBE fixed?...Oh NO..not by a longshot!
The last several projects I've worked on in X1 where I'm playing in new parts on various soft synths I've started getting a terrible latency lag from my Alesis QS8 controller to the soft synth. I'm running at 2.9ms latency at 128 samples on my M-Audio Fast Track Ultra so I shouldn't hear any noticeable latency at all...and never did on 8.5.3 but now I'm getting very noticeable delay in sound after striking a note on my controller. I've been able to work around it be quantizing after input but this is nuts. I don't think I can continue to work like this. Again, it's probably something I have (or have not) set right in either X1 or my Fast Track but what. Anyone got a suggestion??
post edited by yorolpal - 2011/01/23 15:49:11
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ba_midi
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 14:17:20
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yorolpal
The last several projects I've worked on in X1 where I'm playing in new parts on various soft synths I've started getting a terrible latency lag from my Alesis QS8 controller to the soft synth. I'm running at 2.9ms latency at 128 samples on my M-Audio Fast Track Ultra so I shouldn't hear any noticeable latency at all...and never did on 8.5.3 but now I'm getting very noticeable delay in sound after striking a note on my controller. I've been able to work around it be quantizing after input but this is nuts. I don't think I can continue to work like this. Again, it's probably something I have (or have not) set right in either X1 or my Fast Track but what. Anyone got a suggestion??
Ol Pal - are you using anything like Perfect Space or any other CPU/Latency intense plugin there? Also - as dumb as this sounds - have you tried rebooting? Maybe Windows is not talking nice to your devices and needs a reboot.
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yorolpal
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 14:22:57
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No, not using any latency sucking plugs. And I just went and checked and here's something else...the latency only happens when playback or record is engaged...in other words, only when the transport is engaged and playing. If I'm just noodling on a rhodes part for instance with the project idle there's not latency at all. But as soon as I hit play or play/record the latency goes all to hell. It's pretty maddening.
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drumr
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 14:28:18
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does it still happen when all fx are bypassed?
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yorolpal
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 14:38:11
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Well, you know I'm nothin if not a persistent ol cuss so I've been trying things with all parties concerned and I think I've both discovered the cause (maybe) and maybe even the cause of several of my BSODs lately. Everytime I'd go back into the control panel to see if the Fast Track settings were as they should be I noticed that the sample rate kept reverting back to 44.1 instead of 48 which is what I use in X1 AND what I set the Fast Track to. I'd change it back and then go back into X1 and experiment but the latency issue was still there. Then I'd go back to the Fast Track panel and...derned if the sample rate hadn't reverted back to 44.1. Then I saw that the Fast Track's clock was set to "internal". I switched it to external and "boom" the sample rate switched back to 48. And when I went back into X1 and played my rhodes part with transport engaged...no latency. Whoo Hoo!! I'm going to change the title to say that I MIGHT have fixed this but I'd still like anyone elses take on this as most of you are eleventy jillion times smarter than me.;-)
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ba_midi
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 14:38:30
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yorolpal
No, not using any latency sucking plugs. And I just went and checked and here's something else...the latency only happens when playback or record is engaged...in other words, only when the transport is engaged and playing. If I'm just noodling on a rhodes part for instance with the project idle there's not latency at all. But as soon as I hit play or play/record the latency goes all to hell. It's pretty maddening.
Hmm, I wonder if you engaged the feature - I forget what it's called - where you can arm tracks a certain way: Allow Arm Changes During Playback/Record
It's in the record OPTIONS.
Or maybe you hti some key that is toggling some other option for record.
EDIT: Woops, I see you might have resolved this.
post edited by ba_midi - 2011/01/23 14:39:47
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yorolpal
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 14:39:23
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brundlefly
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 14:39:53
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This thread reminded me of this old one; http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?&m=1819960&mpage=1 Unfortunately, I don't think this was ever resolved. My guess would be some of sort of driver state or hardware/port/bus issue that is adding hidden latency above and beyond the buffer latency. Is 8.5.3 still okay? Also, you didn't install (or need) the X1a hotfix for Lynx-type cards, right?
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ba_midi
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 14:40:27
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yorolpal
See above, Billy.
Yeah, I see you must have posted before I hit Save :) Glad ya got it ironed out, Ol Pal.
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brundlefly
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 14:54:02
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Then I saw that the Fast Track's clock was set to "internal". I switched it to external and "boom" the sample rate switched back to 48. So you sync your interface to the QS8's ADAT clock? I do tthe same here. Odd that it caused a latency increase. Glad you got it figured, though.
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yorolpal
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 15:48:30
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Well...it's not figured. And, apparently that particular project is screwed...even the backup I always make. It does have something to do with the Fast Track tho and it does probably need to be set on "internal"...although of that I'm not sure at all. In any case if I have it set to external my old 8.5.3 projects (including the one I spent 3hours on today) won't play at all and give the dialog "cannot open playback device...". I've been able to reset the Fast Track back to settings that allow them to play back but when I do that the latency issues returns. Plus now it's even when the transport is NOT engaged. Sheesh. Other projects seem not to have the latency thing so I have no clue as to what happened with this one. So... does anyone know whether I should have the Fast Track set to internal or external and why? I actually think I might have to phone Cake up tomorrow. I haven't done that in years.
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yorolpal
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 16:08:25
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Apparently the way I'm running the Fast Track Ultra it might have to be set to "internal" clock. Can't figure why it kept reverting back to 44.1 and don't know how many projects are affected as yet by this "latency" anomoly. I'll keep ya posted.
post edited by yorolpal - 2011/01/23 16:47:29
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yorolpal
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 16:54:24
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OK. I've uninstalled, cleaned the registry and reinstalled the FTU and cleaned up what I think were some leftover complicatons from the last install. Reset all my settings in X1 (ran the wave profiler, etc...) and everything seems to be more or less "normal" again. I've got the FTU set on "internal" clock and set to 48K and 128 samples. I'm not getting the crazy VST latency problem in my normal template or several other projects I've pulled up. But the project I was working on today when things went nuts AND the backup of the project are both exhibiting the latency issue. But at least they are there and playing back correctly. Will keep investigating but probably need someone more savvy than me (uh, Jim Roseberry are you listening?? Billy?? Seth?? Brandon?? Scott?? et al...) to get much further. Thanks for everyone as per usual for your info and assistance. I am starting to wonder though how come it is that every single weekend in my project studio something like this has to crop up...it can't be all me can it?? Can it??
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ba_midi
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 16:54:40
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yorolpal
Apparently the way I'm running the Fast Track Ultra it might have to be set to "internal" clock. Can't figure why it kept reverting back to 44.1 and don't know how many projects are affected as yet by this "latency" anomoly. I'll keep ya posted.
When you say "Internal" - do you mean in the Fast Track? Did you check the clock setting in Sonar itself? In that one project, I'd recheck everthing - AUDIO setup, MIDI Setup, Advanced Audio, Project, you name it - check it ;)
post edited by ba_midi - 2011/01/23 16:56:15
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yorolpal
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 17:24:03
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Yea, I've done that and here is the only anomaly I've turned up so far in my investigations. If I load up my normal template or any newer project that was started in X1, then minimize it, and go to Windows control panel and check the FTU's settings it's still set to 48k. BUT...if I load up an older project from 8.5.3 and do the same, the FTU's settings have been changed to 44.1. So I guess it's just whatever the project was originally recorded at sets the sample rate of the FTU...and that seems logical. So I still can't figure the crazy latency in those few projects tho. Another interesting side note: After my last install of the FTU drivers I was getting 2.9 ms at 128 samples which equated to 8.8 ms of roundtrip latency. After this latest install I'm at 2.7 ms at 128 samples BUT that equates to 9.4ms roundtrip latency! Tarzan just wants to push button and hear noise...not have to think!
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digi2ns
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 18:26:36
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hiya olpal, I m not sure what your set up is but I am running what is listed in signature with new FastTrackUltra. I had this same problem this week. Not sure how I fixed it because of the Bus Bug.
I did make sure I set my stuff to 24 bit / 32 bit and put it back to 44.1 and internal setting. I had buses added that created a problem and had my system crashing when starting X1. I deleted the buses and associated tracks (dont deletew tracks if trying this first) and all my troubles went away after a couple reboots and a 100 or so crashes with trial and errors and alot of help from our friends in here.
Let me know if you want my exact settings and Ill get them for ya.
MIKE --Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64 --X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors --PCR500 --MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra --Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO --Line6 X3 Live --Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear# http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns
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ba_midi
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 18:33:33
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yorolpal
Yea, I've done that and here is the only anomaly I've turned up so far in my investigations. If I load up my normal template or any newer project that was started in X1, then minimize it, and go to Windows control panel and check the FTU's settings it's still set to 48k. BUT...if I load up an older project from 8.5.3 and do the same, the FTU's settings have been changed to 44.1. So I guess it's just whatever the project was originally recorded at sets the sample rate of the FTU...and that seems logical. So I still can't figure the crazy latency in those few projects tho. Another interesting side note: After my last install of the FTU drivers I was getting 2.9 ms at 128 samples which equated to 8.8 ms of roundtrip latency. After this latest install I'm at 2.7 ms at 128 samples BUT that equates to 9.4ms roundtrip latency! Tarzan just wants to push button and hear noise...not have to think!
Ol Pal, yes, when you load a project, it sets the sample rate the project was done at. I don't know what to suggest. Did you try under the audio options to set the "Use ASIO reported Latency" ? Also - in Sonar, double check your "recording" and "playback" TIMING master?
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digi2ns
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 18:33:53
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Hey love you work on myspace, just noticed your in LR, AR. I just moved from that area not long ago to Michigan. Again let me know and if you want it over the phone, I can call or you can call me, just message me
MIKE --Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64 --X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors --PCR500 --MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra --Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO --Line6 X3 Live --Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear# http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns
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digi2ns
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 18:37:50
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I agree with all of Billies ideas as well, his posts have been a huge help for me also.
MIKE --Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64 --X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors --PCR500 --MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra --Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO --Line6 X3 Live --Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear# http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns
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ba_midi
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 18:39:10
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digi2ns
I agree with all of Billies ideas as well, his posts have been a huge help for me also.
Thank you - I'm honored to be of help!
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yorolpal
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/23 22:34:22
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Yea...with the exception of the latency problem on just a couple of projects I'm back to square one. Jim suggested I experiment with the PDC button on the toolbar. And so I shall. I'll keep ya posted.
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yorolpal
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/24 12:20:30
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Well, clicking the ol PDC button on the control bar does indeed cure the latency problem of anything I might wish to play in...but it also then causes all the already played in VSTs to go out of time. Luckily I've just about finished tracking in that project so it's only an irksome detail. I'll also copy over all the tracks to a new project and that will probably solve whatever got screwed up.
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pwal
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/24 13:20:52
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hey ol pal, just a thought, are the synths simple instrument tracks, or trad audio/midi combos? (i think i had some weirdness with a simple inst track over the w/e)
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ba_midi
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/24 13:29:22
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yorolpal
Well, clicking the ol PDC button on the control bar does indeed cure the latency problem of anything I might wish to play in...but it also then causes all the already played in VSTs to go out of time. Luckily I've just about finished tracking in that project so it's only an irksome detail. I'll also copy over all the tracks to a new project and that will probably solve whatever got screwed up.
FWIW, I have seen (and bet you have to) SOME projects get corrupted in mysterious ways and all kinds of weirdness happens. SO maybe it is just that one project ?
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yorolpal
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/24 14:24:58
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Well, I'm gonna hope you're right Billy, ol pal.
And Pwal, they are all midi and audio tracks...NOT...simple instrument tracks.
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Bub 
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/24 14:30:39
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Billy's dead on about the corrupted project thing. Especially bundles (.cwb).
I've had some really strange things happen due to those getting corrupted. Some so bad I had to scrap the project and start over. Not that I'm working with Pink Floyd on Dark Side Of The Moon II or anything important like that.
:)
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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neiby
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/01/24 14:35:58
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This sort of reminds me of a couple of weeks ago when I first got X1 and had horrible latency when I would load up a project originally saved in 8.5.3. I'd play something on my keyboard with the transport stopped and I'd still get very bad latency. I was never able to figure it out and the problem does not happen in projects created with X1.
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vanceen
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Re:New Bizarre Latency issue with X1
2011/02/07 19:04:27
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I had this happen to me last weekend.
I loaded True Pianos and it played properly at first. But as soon as record was hit and the the transport started, I started getting unacceptable latency. The latency continued after the transport stopped. The same thing happened with a Native Instruments piano.
In the end I had to point my keyboard back to one of its internal sounds instead of a soft synth for tracking, and then switch it back to True Pianos.
I tried the PDC button, but I ended up getting bad distortion on the audio that had already been recorded.
SONAR Platinum Windows 10 ASUS X99E WE Core i7 5960X 32 GB Corsair DDR4 2133 C13 Fireface UFX USB driver 1.098 GeForce GTX 950
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