JClosed
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 07:37:18
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Well Mike - as I said.. I do not agree it is an example of sloppy programming. But hey - you can't agree always right?  And those more examples. I assume you are pointing at the sentence "In this case". I am sorry - I did not meant Sonar in particular here, I was speaking about software in a more general way. I am sorry I did not expressed myself carefully enough, but English is not my native language, so -for me- it is easy to make mistakes - resulting in some lack of coherence..
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 07:45:50
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HI JClosed,
Absolutely, I can agree to disagree in a friendly way.
I like the fact that you are sticking to facts and simply disagree... that works for me 100%.
all the best,
mike
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codamedia
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 08:40:25
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mike_mccue
How about that "P".
Sloppy? or on purpose?
I'm not sure sloppy would be accurate, but maybe that's just me. Obviously those hotkeys don't load until a project is loaded. The only thing they really didn't do was bind this globaly. You can easily do this yourself. 1: Open Sonar without a project > Open preferences > go to key bindings. 2: Set P to Edit > Preferences Now Preferences will open with the press of a P, whether a project is open or not.
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
Desktop: Win 7 Pro 64 Bit , ASUS MB w/Intel Chipset, INTEL Q9300 Quad Core, 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, ATI 5450 Video Laptop: Windows 7 Pro, i5, 8 Gig Ram Hardware: Presonus FP10 (Firepod), FaderPort, M-Audio Axiom 49, Mackie 1202 VLZ, POD X3 Live, Variax 600, etc... etc...
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 09:02:50
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"Obviously those hotkeys don't load until a project is loaded." Although I agree that this is indeed the case... why is it obvious? In my personal opinion, I think it is obvious that Cakewalk forgot to code the key command to work with out a project open. Will any one suggest that the omission has some actual purpose or that the omission was done with intent? I personally think it is an oversight. I launch SONAR, I see a menu... I've memorized the new key commands associated with that menu... but I learn that the use of the key command is circumstantial rather than global? :-) I think we're are destined to simply disagree. :-) Thanks for the tip about the key bindings. best regards, mike edit spelling
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/02/01 09:03:56
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Crush
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 09:53:38
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I launch SONAR, I see a menu... I've memorized the new key commands associated with that menu... but I learn that the use of the key command is circumstantial rather than global? :-) I think we're are destined to simply disagree. :-) You are right. It's illogical to the extreme. Like.. to the point I've never seen that functionality in any other software. So illogical in fact that is why I keep saying that the development was likely.. never mind.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 10:11:23
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I agree with mike_mccue, it's an oversight and maybe even sloppy, but illogical to the extreme?? 
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codamedia
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 10:12:06
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mike_mccue
I think we're are destined to simply disagree. :-)
Fair enough, there is nothing wrong with that. Should I ever disagree (with anyone), please keep in mind it is always done respectfully - which is how I see your views.
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
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codamedia
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 10:19:37
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Crush
It's illogical to the extreme. Like.. to the point I've never seen that functionality in any other software. So illogical in fact that is why I keep saying that the development was likely.. never mind.
There are two possible hot keys when no project is open. CTL O which allows you to open a project, and P which should open preferences. P is not bound, but can be on the user end. In my world that is not "illogical to the extreme" and worth losing any sleep over. For me it's the equivalent of deciding on what type of coffee to make in the morning. For the record I will say it again - it's just my opinon :) No disrespect intended!
post edited by codamedia - 2011/02/01 10:20:57
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
Desktop: Win 7 Pro 64 Bit , ASUS MB w/Intel Chipset, INTEL Q9300 Quad Core, 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, ATI 5450 Video Laptop: Windows 7 Pro, i5, 8 Gig Ram Hardware: Presonus FP10 (Firepod), FaderPort, M-Audio Axiom 49, Mackie 1202 VLZ, POD X3 Live, Variax 600, etc... etc...
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Brando
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 11:18:09
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kubalibre
JazzSinger
Now, this is just sloppy programming.
***
True, but you hit a sore spot by stating the obvious. Now duck and cover
WTH? Your other DAW must have a really crappy forum. I thought you left SONAR so you hang here just to take pot shots?
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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brundlefly
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 11:42:31
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JazzSinger
brundlefly
3. When you release the mouse button, where does the mouse cursor reappear? See what I mean? Every adjustment thereafter requires repositioning the mouse twice. Now: The programmer absolutely must have been aware of this. The job just wasn't finished properly.
Okay, Jazz. I hate to do this to you, as I have my own complaints about X1 (to the point that I've gone back to 8.5.3), but...
What's sloppier: that dragging sliders works this way in X1, or that you didn't notice or check that every version of SONAR has worked this way since at least SONAR 6.
My 8.5.3 and 8.3.1 transport sliders do not work like the one in SX1(a).
I no longer have S6 installed.
Edit: I am beginning to wonder if Sonar runs different code branches, depending on the capabilities of your graphics card?
Edit2: Or are we comparing 32-bit SX1 (as in my case) and 64-bit SX1 (yours, possibly?) Okay, my bad. Looks like I'm as sloppy as the next guy.  Here's the deal: In the specific case of the position slider in earlier versions, the mouse pointer does not disappear when you click, so naturally it follows the slider. For all (?) other slider controls, like pans, volumes and gains in the track view, and volume faders in the console view, the mouse pointer disappears while dragging, and reappears in the original position after you release the button. The change is that X1's position slider now works like all those other controls. I didn't notice the difference because I never used that control in 8.5, and didn't even have it in my toolbar. But most sliders in both x86 and x64 version work as described.
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JazzSinger
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 12:07:34
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Ah. Yes, that's right. And that on the volume slider annoyed me already in previous versions! I always found it disconcerting.
Oh, well. An opportunity to apply consistency went in the wrong direction.
At least its not code forking that's to blame (if you'll pardon the expression). That would be a maintenance nightmare.
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yorolpal
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 12:11:47
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mike_mccue
I used to mix with SONAR 7 on my laptop... while surfing on the internet... worked great. True Story.
I think X1 has a lot of sloppy programming.
Try pressing "P" with SONAR open and no project loaded... what happens on your zero hint system?
best regards,
mike
Well, anyone who can accurately mix while at the same time surfing the net is one badass multi-tasking hombre...or has some very interesting mixes.
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feedback50
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 12:12:28
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I can't comment on X1, since I'm not a bleeding-edge guy and usually wait 6 months before doing any version changes. I will say that a number of things like mouse/icon behavior and interactions between standard windows tools (sliders, drop-downs, radio-buttons, etc.) are default behaviors associated with a particular version of the tools used to create the applications (e.g. Visual Studio). They are often not the decision of the applications programmer, but the decisions of the people that created the tool set. Migrating the development environment (using the latest versions) is a necessary evil since support for new memory models (64 bit code), new standards for i/o (i.e. usb3, fw800), new video standards, new audio codec's, can change with each versions. Sadly, there isn't as much competition in the development tools arena as there was ten years ago. Microsoft has a somewhat schizophrenic view of development features (com objects, OLE, and other bygone concepts), so keeping up with their software concepts can be a real challenge. The behavior of a mouse icon in one version of Visual Studio may change with the next version. Hope you can all sort this out satisfactorily.
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Splat 
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 12:12:41
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JazzSinger
Finally found time this weekend to try Sonar X1a (32 bit).
I loaded up a project with only 12 audio tracks.
First strange behavior: The metronome sounds on playback, despite the button being off
(and the checkbox in the settings menu said it was off, too!)
After some clicking around, it finally synchronized with what was really happening.
***
I then played back my song and experimented with the new pro channel.
When the song got to the end, I would press the stop button on the transport panel
and restart.
After about the fourth restart, the stop button no longer responded. It went dark grey
and no longer stopped the project.
***
So I decided to stop it with the pause button.
I used the scrollbar under the transport buttons. to get back to the beginning.
The mouse cursor does not move with the scroll bar thumb. It just stays where
I press the mouse button down.
Now, this is just sloppy programming.
This should have been obvious to the programmer.
It probably was just "thrown over the wall" to QA, who didn't notice it.
***
My conclusion: Sonar X1 is very promising, but it's not ready yet.
It's not even a question of posting bug reports. SX1 needs attention at a very basic level.
I had similar issues with an old dodgy Creative card I was playing with. Now I've got a FocusRite Pro 40 and using ASIO drivers it's fine. I don't think this is a Sonar X1 issue (although note I'm using Windows 7/64 bit). Smells of latency or something.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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brundlefly
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 12:29:55
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At least its not code forking that's to blame (if you'll pardon the expression). That would be a maintenance nightmare. I gather compiling for X86 and x64 does not require starting from a different source code base so there hasn't been much if any of that kind of issue, thankfully. The only instances of version-specific issues I can recall offhand were related to different language versions.
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Splat
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 12:41:32
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yorolpal
mike_mccue
I used to mix with SONAR 7 on my laptop... while surfing on the internet... worked great. True Story.
mike
Well, anyone who can accurately mix while at the same time surfing the net is one badass multi-tasking hombre...or has some very interesting mixes.
Pathetic - I can do this, drink beer in my right hand, and smoke a cigar with my left.... whilst riding on my exercise bike.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2011/02/01 12:42:42
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 12:45:44
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You got me there!!!
:-)
I have to admit, on my current laptop... I can not mix audio to my satisfaction... it's part of the demise of the competent laptop problem many of us are concerned with.
My actual desktop DAW has never seen the internet and I refuse to tell it that it exists.
best regards,
mike
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 12:51:20
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yorolpal
Well, anyone who can accurately mix while at the same time surfing the net is one badass multi-tasking hombre...or has some very interesting mixes.
I would venture to say that my most bad ass mixing moment was mixing for Tom T Halls opening act... in the rain with no cover at an outdoor festival... while soldering up 2 channels on the beat up end of a company supplied snake... while some nice fans held a blue tarp over my head... because Mr. Hall's act needed all the channels on the snake to work when I mixed him later that evening. When I pulled that off... I knew I had arrived. :-S I now feel lucky that there was no exercise bike in the vicinity. :-)
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Mully
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 18:05:44
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Crush
For sure there are bugs... just because I haven't had any yet, I am very sure some are there.
Lol..
I'm sorry I just don't believe that.
They are beyond bugs. They are to the point that the software is not functioning and it's unusable.
Sorry, of course i was making things up just to make everyone even more agitated. Soooo I can track, mix, add effects, have metering, no drop outs (yet).... tell me again why I am supposed to be at war with Cake? It is early though and I still have time to start getting nasty about X1..... Cheers all. PS: didn't get to X1 yesterday (kids can be a distraction can't they? so hope to get on it today and bug hunt.)
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doriginal
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 19:10:52
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It is strange how nobody contacts cakewalk. They are very responsive and yes I had issues to with X1. They were very helpful in walking me through them. If you have a legitimate copy I would say contact cakewalk. If they can't help you then put it on the forum. Rants are not good unless you have explored your options. 
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stratman70
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/01 20:48:43
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Mully
Crush
For sure there are bugs... just because I haven't had any yet, I am very sure some are there.
Lol..
I'm sorry I just don't believe that.
They are beyond bugs. They are to the point that the software is not functioning and it's unusable.
Sorry, of course i was making things up just to make everyone even more agitated.
Soooo I can track, mix, add effects, have metering, no drop outs (yet).... tell me again why I am supposed to be at war with Cake?
It is early though and I still have time to start getting nasty about X1.....
Cheers all.
PS: didn't get to X1 yesterday (kids can be a distraction can't they? so hope to get on it today and bug hunt.)
You see, Mully, if you dare say "it works" for your purposes your a liar-and this coming from a dude who posted a video dispalying his "expertise" with daw software. I'll leave that there for you to ponder-no slurs. The hate mongers do not like to be called hate mongers. They like to call folks like me a Hate monger. They don't like personal attacks either. Although calling you a liar would pretty much seem like a personal attack. They just jump right in and say intelligent stuff like" it's unusable" No it's not. I use it EVERYDAY. Just to try and learn it of course. I always go back to 853 because "I am not familiar enough with X1. But I do have 30-40 midi tracks with Softsynths and about 10-15 audio tracks (guitars and vocals) Guess I'm just a lying SOB. Now, on the other hand: Take Mike M, as an example of "rational posting" about bugs and dislikes" He does a fine job of it as of late. He's not happy but he doesn't resort to calling folks liars and such. I have learned a bit from him in the last month or so. Not enough I guess :-) I wish a few of you others would maybe follow suit and don't jump down someones throat if they actually can work a bit in X1a and assume they are lying. To what end? Sure, I get mad, I jump, I leap-but almost every one of my posts have been in "defense" of an over the top post or statement I found offensive or unfounded. IMHO of course. I have a bad temper, what can I say. I try believe me. I do. I really am so tired of all this. Aren't you guys? PS I'm getting there Mike-slow going though.
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bladetragic
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/02 03:49:57
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trimph1
10Ten
Mully
Here I've been running X1a with ZERO hint of what you are implying must be in every release. Doesn't make sense.
Cheers.
Which is untrue because the metronome issue is a known and confirmed issue. Also, X1 seems to have memory issues that 8.5.3 didn't have. Guess what. Both of those are examples of sloppy programming.
Which, unfortunately, makes one wonder whether this was pushed out the door to satisfy quarterly reporting.
I don't know whether I would say it was untrue, but the fact that it is a known issue would necessitate that it be fixed ... I tend to think that there seems to have been a few issues like that..seems to work with some..not with others...again..not very tight programming at any rate...
I often get the "rushed out of the door" feeling when using X1 as well. There are some glaring bugs that I believe would be impossible not to notice wiith even the most basic testing and trial runs. Which leads me to believe some things were just given the "we'll fix it later" treatment.
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Mully
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/03 05:41:28
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JazzSinger
@Mully: Before responding, try it yourself.
1. Open a project.
2. In the transport section, slide the thumb to the end of the project.
3. When you release the mouse button, where does the mouse cursor reappear?
See what I mean? Every adjustment thereafter requires repositioning the mouse twice.
Now: The programmer absolutely must have been aware of this. The job just wasn't finished properly.
Ok I finally got back to X1a and tried the mousey thing and I don't have the issue... the mouse when released reappears where it was when I first press/select... sorry, not seeing this problem. Edit: just tried the 'P' thingy and went.... "Ahh... hang on, so what?" but I can I think, see the point. Alt e and I'm there in the available pulldown(s) anyways and this is what I'm used to in other apps with no project already open so for me it is not an issue but if previous versions of Sonar did do it(?) then I see the 'issue' but if that's the main 'issue' then I have nothing I can possibly offer to make anyone feel better. @Stratman.... +1
post edited by Mully - 2011/02/03 05:53:34
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DeveryH
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/03 07:26:01
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Scott Lee
"Here I've been running X1a with ZERO hint of what you are implying must be in every release."
This is not a accurate example. I have bugs in Sonar X1 that others are not experiencing. Are they legit? Yes, in fact, the fixes for a few of the issues I am having with be in the X1b patch as Noel posted.
Just because it works for some doesn't legitimize the software stability. We arent using a form factor standard in hardware, so the whole "it works for me" statement is just irrelevant.
Best Regards,
And contrariwise this "just because it doesn't work" doesn't point to software instability either. You seem to be having some serious problems. I know you said you've worked on them extensively and I trust you on this. If I was you, though, I wouldn't wait till the next patch to see if those problems get fixed. X1 works fine aside from the normal release bugs for most everyone except seemingly you. So, we have to conclude that there is something on your machine, whether hardware or software, drivers or settings, that is not playing nice with X1, and personally I wouldn't expect a patch to fix it. Count me flabbergasted if X1b fixes your problems without you lifting a finger. But why should you care? You're writing again without X1 right? "It works for me" is not irrelevant. Unless you want us to also conclude that "it doesn't work for me" is irrelevant also?
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UnderTow
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/03 08:54:22
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There are many examples of sloppy implementation in X1. If people don't agree all I can say is that your standards of perfection are lower than mine. No point in arguing further. For a few examples of sloppy or clunky implementation, just have a look at the second post in this thread: http://forum.cakewalk.com...;m=2193406&mpage=1 If I had time to explore more, I would probably find more... UnderTow
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djjhart@aol.com
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Re:Sonar X1a first impression-not good.
2011/02/03 09:15:55
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Hey jazz don't you have the Tascam Fw ? I thought I remember you as one that had the tascam too, I have the tascam and have had some of those issue's your having, If so then we can only ascertain its something with our board and X1, I do know that x1a is not usable at all for me.. I'm back to X1 and all the broken things that were suppose to be fix in X1a , I have to deal with and keep my fingers crossed and hope I get to use X1b :(
Computer - Intel Q9550, Intel BX48bt2 MB, W8 64 bit. 8 gb Ram, SSD Hardware - Tascam Fw1884 Control surface only, Ni S49 Komplete Kontroll,Roland Quad Capture, Ni Machine,Kore, Focusrite A/D converter, Blue Mic, Roland Gaia, Akai Mpk49, Yamaha HS80 Monitors.Software - Sonar Platinum , Vengeance VPS bundle,Sugar Bytes Effectrix, Turnado, NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Dune, Rob Papen Blade , Delay, Punch Evolved. http://soundcloud.com/johnhartson/tracks http://www.youtube.com/user/jhart1313
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