What am I doing wrong? or am I just expecting 2 much?

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Truckermusic
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2011/02/01 06:32:37 (permalink)

What am I doing wrong? or am I just expecting 2 much?

Ok...I am working a new project right now.....and I am a little frustrated cause I am getting a lot of Audio noise....kind of like distortion from old Lp's.....(just dated my self)... I know that it is coming from my audio buffer size but still....and to kill it I need to increase my buffer size.....but what am I going to do when I start to have to lay down serious audio tracks in this work...the latency will be too much to cope with.....

anyway my general computer specs are listed below....in my Signature
but I am thinking I do not have something set up correct or am doing something incorrect cause I feel like I should be getting way more out of my machine than this.......I am only at the start of my composition.....and feel there is not a lot of room to grow here...

here is where I am at...

I have 20 tracks of audio...(they are just sample guide lines and will not be there in the final production) ...they are just small sections like about 10 measures long at 77 bpm in 4/4..

I have one instance of Kore2 running in a multi timbral  configuration (8 outputs each has a sound loaded but I have yet to begin putting data in these tracks. So basically the project has yet to begin and I am already having issues)
I am recording at 24 bit / 44.1 k
I also am running Fire wire and  ASIO drivers

In the Audio Dialog drop down menu box
the buffer size is set to normal and only one click away from the min. setting
ASIO reproted latency is
input 7.3 msec @320 samples
output 7.3 msec @320 samples
total round trip 14.5 msec @640 samples

(in the Audio Options dialog box on the tab marked file system)
for playback buffer size I have 165 kb
for the record i/o buffer size I have 165kb

my cpu is running at 50% with only one core doing most of the work and the second just  a little over 25 % .....the other two are barely working.....

Am I expecting too much ??? or do I just have things set up wrong? or do I need to tweak my system in a different way to get more out of this?

What I want to be able to do is run 70 to 80 tracks of Audio / midi combined with several instances of the bigger plugs like SD2, Kore 2, GPO4 Aria player etc.....

Any advice would be appreciated....

Thank you
Clifford
post edited by Truckermusic - 2011/02/01 07:57:20

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:What am I doing wrong? 2011/02/01 07:45:15 (permalink)
    You can easily reduce the number of tracks. For example, if you have one guitar spread over 3 tracks with snippits in each track, you can drag the snippits into one track and delete the other extra tracks. Right click the clip, scroll down to clip properties, note the starting point, and after the drag/paste fix the starting point of the clip.

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    #2
    Truckermusic
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    Re:What am I doing wrong? 2011/02/01 07:52:21 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker


    You can easily reduce the number of tracks. For example, if you have one guitar spread over 3 tracks with snippits in each track, you can drag the snippits into one track and delete the other extra tracks. Right click the clip, scroll down to clip properties, note the starting point, and after the drag/paste fix the starting point of the clip.

    Herb
    Thanks for the reply.....
     
    I wrote this before I got on the bus to work this morning and I forgot to mention a few points I think are important...like although I have the multi timb. Kore2 loaded up I have 8 out puts configured and I have 8 sounds loaded but I have yet to start writing the music (midi) ...The audio that is in the project is for guide only ....it will be deleted later..
     
    but what you have mentioned is a very good tip so I will keep it in mind for future use!
     
    Thanks
    Clifford

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    timidi
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    Re:What am I doing wrong? 2011/02/01 08:09:14 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker


    You can easily reduce the number of tracks. For example, if you have one guitar spread over 3 tracks with snippits in each track, you can drag the snippits into one track and delete the other extra tracks. Right click the clip, scroll down to clip properties, note the starting point, and after the drag/paste fix the starting point of the clip.



    Just hold 'shift' when you drag. this locks it horizontally while dragging vertically.


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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:What am I doing wrong? 2011/02/02 02:47:37 (permalink)
    20 tracks of audio should be a piece of cake to your PC. The amount of tracks can not have anything to do with your actual problem. Trying with bigger buffers doesn't automatically increase your latency, does it??. If the audio buffers are close to minimum I'd test with bigger ones - unless you've done it already without success.

    Do you have this "vinyl-crackling" in all your projects or only this one?
    Is it constant or does it vary with the amount of audio activity or somehow?
    Actually, reading your description, I can't think of anything else than buffers/latency settings, but your gear is surely capable of flawless performance with a project like you described.

    Is Kore2 your standard tool and does it work normally without disturbances?
    I don't own it so I have no idea of its "weight" and possible weak points. Obviously it's a heavy VST while my PC, weaker than yours, runs 30-35 tracks (50/50 midi and audio) with Kontakt, Addictive Drums, Manybass etc. with about 40-50% CPU load. 
    I'm at work so I can't check my buffers and other settings to compare.

    AFAIU, you should be able to run the kind of big projects you mention (with the help of some freezing etc) with your PC.

    Could any of the "normal" small stuff that sometimes cause trouble be in the picture: Disabling 64 bit-engine (if haven't already), check that X-ray function is disabled?

    Just throwing in what comes to mind...

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    Truckermusic
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    Re:What am I doing wrong? 2011/02/02 08:28:33 (permalink)
    Kalle Rantaaho


    20 tracks of audio should be a piece of cake to your PC. The amount of tracks can not have anything to do with your actual problem. Trying with bigger buffers doesn't automatically increase your latency, does it??. If the audio buffers are close to minimum I'd test with bigger ones - unless you've done it already without success.
     
     
    1. this is what I was thinikng
    2. yes increasing my buffer size even by one click to the right (larger) will dramatically increase my latency....in oreder to record an audio channel I have to push it all the way to the left (smaller) . Once done then I will have to return it to a couple of clicks to the right to carry on with the project
     

    Do you have this "vinyl-crackling" in all your projects or only this one?
    Is it constant or does it vary with the amount of audio activity or somehow?
    Actually, reading your description, I can't think of anything else than buffers/latency settings, but your gear is surely capable of flawless performance with a project like you described.
     
     
    No .... the vinyl cracking just started with this project....and I have not changed any settings.......although in the last project a new midi issue started up....as I record midi data Two CC controler lanes appear.....one for velocity (which would be normal) but then a second one (#23 If i remember correctly). I do not know why this just started happening and I cannot get rid of it.....I will take my eraser and erase the data and then delet the lane (use of the minus sign in the controler box on the left) but when I hit record to do more data input it's right back.......Aarrrgggg!
     
    Is it consistant or vary.....well I can get a couple of instances up with out too much trouble but by the time I have 5 instances (either 5 tracks in a multi timbral situation or 5 simple instrument tracks) I am at the 40 to 50% CPU usage mark and the crackle will make it's apperance..
     

    Is Kore2 your standard tool and does it work normally without disturbances?
    I don't own it so I have no idea of its "weight" and possible weak points. Obviously it's a heavy VST while my PC, weaker than yours, runs 30-35 tracks (50/50 midi and audio) with Kontakt, Addictive Drums, Manybass etc. with about 40-50% CPU load. 
    I'm at work so I can't check my buffers and other settings to compare.
     
    Is Kore2 my standard tool? Well yes  plus SD2 (big time)  / EZ Drummer / I do have Komplet 7 and I use thoese plugs a lot / Rapture / Dim Pro / GPO Aria Player.....I think that these are my biggest ones....but this is the first project that it has really became an issue....my last project went fine I had about about 35 tracks with several of these plugs and did not have an issue..... (Check the colab I did with Philip on big Blue Sky.....I know he stated that we used a lot of loops but I used all plugs self played  midi data etc and One measure of one loop and had no issuesIn fact this project started with a multi timbral instance of Kore2....and I ran 5 out of 8 tracks there)
     
    AFAIU, you should be able to run the kind of big projects you mention (with the help of some freezing etc) with your PC.
     
     
    To the answer above.....I did do some freezing cause when I latency noticed while trying to lay down vox....

    Could any of the "normal" small stuff that sometimes cause trouble be in the picture: Disabling 64 bit-engine (if haven't already), check that X-ray function is disabled?
     
     
    I have not tried this so I will look into it.............thanks ....great idea...
     

    Just throwing in what comes to mind...
    Thank you I appreciate the thoughts....
    I tried to answer your quesitons inside the quote...
     
    Clifford


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    chuckebaby
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    Re:What am I doing wrong? 2011/02/02 10:06:50 (permalink)
    i run 36 audio tracks right now on a lap top with 4 gig of ram and a two core proccessor..the wave profiler has been wrong before..there is a page on the cakewalk faq that tells you what driver setting to using  sonar..(sorry i cant remember the url.)but make sure the asio is the way to go..i know it sounds wiered but i use mme..no probs at all.
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:What am I doing wrong? 2011/02/02 10:37:03 (permalink)
    Your system is very similar to mine, and under 8.5.3, I'm able to run projects with 75+ tracks, BFD2, multiple V-Vocal clips (live), extensive automation, many, many Fx plugs.

    So it's defnitely possible with your system.

    And I'm using wdm drivers, if this helps.

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    Truckermusic
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    Re:What am I doing wrong? 2011/02/02 13:56:02 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey


    Your system is very similar to mine, and under 8.5.3, I'm able to run projects with 75+ tracks, BFD2, multiple V-Vocal clips (live), extensive automation, many, many Fx plugs.

    So it's defnitely possible with your system.

    And I'm using wdm drivers, if this helps.

    Bristol
    from looking at your system spec's in your signature I am inclined to agree with you.
     
    (Now I am not trying to be a smart guy here cause I really do need to know or find out what I am doing wrong or have configured wrong or what ever.....
     
    but you are the second person who has written me telling me that my system should be able to do this................
     
    this part I think or have to believe......I know.....(not sure cause I've never really been able to get there)......and this is the frustrating part for me......
     
    what I'm trying to find out is What is going wrong with this system right now, or what am I doing wrong or have configured wrong that is standing in the way of me getting 75+ track into a project....because that is my ultimate goal.
     
    I hope you understand the dirfference...
     
    but I still thank you for answering....
    Clifford

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    LeeRoy997
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    Re:What am I doing wrong? 2011/02/25 00:56:52 (permalink)
    Clifford,

    I know that this is from a few weeks ago but a couple more things to think about if you haven't gotten everything sorted out yet...

    Do you have your audio on a reasonably fast (>= 7200 rpm) "audio only" drive that is  seperate from your OS drive?

    Do you have the latest video card drivers installed for your card?

    I had a similar system and these were the last two things that caused clicks and pops for me when my track count count grew past two or three. After addressing these two items, My pop free capacity went up to easily 30-40 tracks or so as long as I stayed away from CPU heavy plugs.

    You have probably already addressed these, but thought i'd mention them.

    LeeRoy
    post edited by LeeRoy997 - 2011/02/25 00:58:45
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    Truckermusic
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    Re:What am I doing wrong? 2011/03/30 15:07:37 (permalink)
    LeeRoy997


    Clifford,

    I know that this is from a few weeks ago but a couple more things to think about if you haven't gotten everything sorted out yet...

    Do you have your audio on a reasonably fast (>= 7200 rpm) "audio only" drive that is  seperate from your OS drive?

    Do you have the latest video card drivers installed for your card?

    I had a similar system and these were the last two things that caused clicks and pops for me when my track count count grew past two or three. After addressing these two items, My pop free capacity went up to easily 30-40 tracks or so as long as I stayed away from CPU heavy plugs.

    You have probably already addressed these, but thought i'd mention them.

    LeeRoy
     
    LeeRoy
     
    thanks for replying
     
    in answer to your questions....
     
    Yes. my os is one drive and then I have Three more internal HD's that I split for samples, librarys and Aduio. All run at 7200 rpm
     
    I also have two esata external drives that I use for back ups....again 7200 rpm and all five HD's are 1 tb each....
     
    the video card I do believe has the latest drives....every 6 months or so I stop what I am doing and take some time to update all my drivers for the system and all my software....(well the software get's updated asap when a new version comes out......except for Sonar X1....I have it....I have the updates X1a and x1b but am afraid to do an install ......I already have enough issues to solve with out this...so I just stick to 8.5.3......)
     
    I am so frustrated with my DAW at present that I am really thinking of building a new one....
     
    Clifford

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    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:What am I doing wrong? 2011/03/31 20:28:45 (permalink)
    I am so frustrated with my DAW at present that I am really thinking of building a new one....

     
    Narrow down the culprits
     
    First, why is the CPU use high?
    Does the CPU use only increase significantly when using Kore2?
    What plugins do you have running? 
    ie: Multiple Convolution reverbs can be a pretty heavy load... whereas running a typical EQ, compressor is almost no load.
    What's the CPU use when just the audio tracks are loaded/running?
    Make sure the HDs are currently running in DMA (not PIO) mode.  You can check this in Device Manager.
    Go into the Primary and Secondary channels... look at the Current Transfer Mode.
    If a drive is running in PIO mode, that'll absolutely kill performance. 
     
    If it were me, I'd start with a clean/tweaked install of Windows, test the hardware to make sure all is well... then I'd proceed to install the audio interface/driver... then Sonar and your plugins.
     
    If you have a backup image file (from when things were working well), you could reload... and proceed from there.
     
    One step at a time... and you'll get there
     
    FWIW, get this issue squared away... and pickup a copy of True Image (or similar) and make a backup image file.
    That way you'll always be able to quickly/easily get back to a properly working DAW.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
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