warning:Very long thread-One mans attempt

Great post Frank.

I fear this will degenerate............

My Sonar path was V2->V5->V7->V8.3->X1 via 8.5
 
An average project for me will be around a dozen or so MIDI tracks with 2 or 3 soft synths - sometimes more. I mainly use my Sonic Cell for a lot of synth/simulated sound.

Then there's around 15 - 30 audio tracks. Most of those tracks will be multi layered with up to 15 or so layers. I use V-Vocal quite a lot, tried to use Audiosnap in 8.3 and gave up, not re-visited it since.

I'm a serious hobbyist BTW for all those of you that think that's some sort of reflection on ability and technical know how.....

My findings?

I find it stable. I've had one crash that happened when I was investigating the buss envelope cut & paste bug with ba_midi in a thread on here. Other than that it's not crashed or hung. I can't compare that to 8.5 'cos I only used it in passing when I took the 'buy 8.5 get X1 for free' but I also found 8.3 stable. The only instability I've ever had with Sonar was in V7 (IIRC) when I had lots of issues with Alesis drivers.

I've found several bugs, some just annoying with easy-ish work rounds, others a real PITA that I'd rather not have to try an avoid. All of the bugs I've found I've reported via the problem reporter and had replies on all of them (eventually)......

Biggest PITA bug for me is disappearing MIDI data in the PRV. I have to click the scroll bar to get it to reappear, sometimes everytime I switch to that view. Sometimes it never happens, A very bizzarre bug.

Also found my first ever problem with V-Vocal. It flatlines and mutes its output if I open a project with it in while there's already another project open, even the basic template making the "Only one project at a time" bug a RPITA for me.

I think the biggest 'problem' is the change in working method. I personally like the 'new' set up and my work flow has definitely speeded up. I've been mainly finishing up and editing existing projects but over the last couple of days I've started a new one from the ground up. So far I've found the Smart tool for MIDI editing absolutely great. Combined with jumping views via screensets and it really has been a timesaver.

To sum up. So far so good but many of the bugs should never have got past Beta without being noticed and the long-standing bugs really need sorting too.

I'm looking forward to X1b and the bug fixes. I'll have more to say after that arrives.........

I say that because even though I do not experience them

Then honestly you aren't using Sonar X1.

As I've told you before Frank, my projects are a lot like yours except possibly a few less synths. I'll typically have Session Drummer, a few instances of Dim Pro, maybe some True Piano or (when I was using 32 bit) NI's B-4. Then audio tracks of guitars, bass, and vocals although I'll sometimes use Dim Pro for the bass depending on the project. Most of my projects are in the 30 to 35 track range.

I usually get the basic arrangement down with just a scratch guitar track played to the metronome. Then I'll add the drums, then my bass part, then rhythm guitar parts, piano, organ, etc. Then any solos and vocals last. And I'm one of those heretics that likes to "mix as I go" just trying to get a basic mix although frequently I'll end up starting the mix from scratch when all tracking is done.

One of the great things about X1 for me is that for some reason I find using track layers a lot easier which makes my tracking and mixing easier. In the past if I didn't like a take I would just scrap it and do the whole thing over. Using layers I can pick and choose from different parts of different takes. Of course this has been available in SONAR for a long time but like I said it just seems easier to use in X1.

I started using SONAR with version 4 and have upgraded every year since. It seems I had a really bad time with either 6 or 7, I don't remember which now, but whichever one it was it just never worked quite right for me, always had a lot of crashes and strange behavior. And I believe I had some issues when 8 first came out, too, but the patches fixed those just fine. And 8.5 was always rock solid.

The only issues I've had with X1 were some crashes I had when loading old projects in which I had to replace all the plug ins with their 64 bit equivalents. For some reason this causes the program to want to hang on saving and causes the occassional crash. With current projects I've had no issues at all.

Nice thread Frank, and here's hoping we all get things smoothed out to our satisfaction!

Nice post Frank. I’ve wanted to share my (mostly positive) experience with X1 because originally, I was apprehensive to upgrade after reading so much negativity on the forum.  So I hope this thread will help others coming here looking for advice on whether to upgrade or not.
 
Besides using X1 to compose and record my own music, I rely on Sonar exclusively at my commercial home-based recording studio. X1 has seen anywhere between 2 - 10 hours of use daily since I installed it on Dec 18th. In that time I have yet to have a single crash. It’s running on an ADK computer which has an Intel Core i7 920 with 3GB RAM and 32-bit Windows XP.

Typical sessions run 15 to 30 tracks of MIDI and/or 20 to 40 tracks of audio. Don’t use V-Vocal, Audio Snap, PRV, or ProChannel but do utilize tons of virtual instruments: Omnisphere, Trillian, Komplete 7, Superior Drummer…and for effects: UAD, SoundToys, Izotope, Antares, and Slate Digital.

I can’t say that I haven’t experienced any glitches with X1, but these have been minor annoyances and definitely not show-stoppers. When I open a project, anything that was in the MultiDock is now floating on top of the track view and needs to be dragged back to the dock…and one time the space bar stopped acting as the start/stop function, but a quick reboot solved that issue.

Other than the learning curve to find where some vital features have been tucked away, my experience with X1 has been positive. Maybe I’m crazy, but I love the new color scheme!! (the old color scheme reminds me of Willy Wonka when I see it now) The Inspector isn’t completely intuitive to me yet but the Smart Tool and Browser are nice improvements to my workflow. As soon as I get a break from working on client projects, I’d like to start familiarizing myself with the Screensets feature.

I understand that those with serious crashing issues are frustrated and I feel for them. I certainly had my share of issues prior to purchasing a purpose-built music PC. (not to say that is the answer to everyone’s problems…just based on my own observation) So far, X1 has been incredibly stable here and I stake my studios reputation on it day-in and day-out. It’s working so well in fact, I haven’t felt the need to install the X1a update yet.

Usually I'm the one posting  that I don't have any problems. That's been the case since SONAR 3 which is where I picked up the SONAR range after having gone from Cakewalk 3 to 8.

"X1" was poor "X1a" was not even usable as I couldn't engage the transport or Audio Engine. The hotfix brought my system to the present level of use which is still an absolute disaster.
I very rarely get to even close the program  before I get a screen freeze, crash or some other glitch like the audio engine dropping out and unable to restart it without restarting SONAR. I dont want to get into any slinging matches with anyone but i don't even get to see what it could do under modest load. even in playing back a project that works flawlessly in SONAR 8.5 wont run without dropouts in X1a Hotfix.
Yet on the same system using whatever driver I choose I can run projects with scores of tracks 100+ in SONAR 8.5 or 8.3.

I've done all the trouble shooting for some 6 weeks from the programs launch amd i'm now busy working with 8.5 and other DAWs eagerly awaiting X1b. If that doesn't sort my issues out; well?

just trying to give a balanced view. Just because it's working for you please don't presume that it must be a problem with my system or user error or some other such thing like not using SONAR to the full. I do it all from hardware control through MIDI , sofsynths, audio recording and editing, provide live fx for monitoring by talent, using loops , samples, complex arrangements, live recording & mixing through SONAR. There is definitely something about SONAR X1a hotfix on my system that doesn't work.

Let's just say we went back 1 version and compared my use of S8.5.3 against someone elses setup. We'd be saying that our systems are running fine because SONAR runs flawlessly (apart from the known bugs of course) Yet go to X1 then X1a then X1a hotfix and that is no longer the case. My PC far exceeds the basic specs.

Anyways not dissing SONAR - just patiently waiting for X1b while I get on with business. I'm glad that many are not have major problems. You have to understand that if we were all in the same boat I would feel even more dejected by the current state of affairs than I am. If that were really the case I wouldn't have much faith in X1b providing a fix for most things that currently stop X1a from working for me.

Crush

Then honestly you aren't using Sonar X1.

It's exactly this kind of dumb nut posts that has kept me away from this forum after my start with X1 and a few weeks of Cakewalk Forum experience.

I have no problems with critical and even heavily critical views, as long as they are justified and people stay with their own experience, instead of starting ugly efforts of patronizing. I also know that X1 needs bug fixing and problems don't just arise from user configurations or bad drivers.

I DO have big problems with a certain kind of users, not rare in this board, who seem dumb enough to think that they can tell others, to which degree they are allowed to run X1 without big problems, and from what point onward they must either be regarded as noobs hardly scratching the surface or even just looking at the screen, as another totally idiotic post claimed, or warez users or whatever some morons in this forum think they can call others by pure insinuating.

Else simply +1 concerning the OPs balanced view, confirmed by others in this thread.

 

stratman70


I will give this an attempt and I only can hope it turns out OK:
 
First, I know X1a has it's issues. Never said it doesn't. In fact, I have yet to see a post stating it is bug free. Not to be confused with post like "it works fine for me" That statement is not saying that at all.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, I do believe you have stated it doesn't have problems. Plus, you stated CW will fix any problems for free which we all know is absolutely not true. They fix some things, but I've never seen any version get fixed to where it works as advertised. I've always had to pay to upgrade and hope things got fixed in the upgrade, which they never have. After reading this thread, I see where you are coming from now and I wish you (and some others) would be more clear. I think it would put a stop to a lot of the back and forth if all of us were a little more clear on what they mean.

 
OK I don't have the issues and here is a quick scenario of what I do:
30-40 midi stacks with 10 -12 softsynths and 10-15 audio tracks. Those are my most common projects. I do not use ASnap, V Vocal, the metronome, matrix, prv or step sequencer.

It seems you only use Sonar in it's most basic form. Most of the things you mention that you don't use, are the things that are broken that the rest of us do you. When you make a blanket statement like, "works for me", you really should say, "but I only use 1/4 of the program" along with that.

 
All my creative work is done with my guitars and my voice and mind.
Perhaps that is why I do not see the issues. I think it is.

That's how I do it too.

 
This has to be the reason for some of us doing OK and others not doing OK.

The reason is, you don't use 3/4 of the program.

 
So let's all work together instead of against each other. I have posted what I do and my meager workflow and I have no major issues.

Again, the reason is, you don't use 3/4 of the program.

Some say they do not believe that I and some others do not have these issues.

That's because you make blanket statements saying X1 works fine for you without explaining (like you have in this thread) that you don't use 3/4 of the program. Now I understand where you are coming from and I get it.

I do have to say some of the problems I'm having I attribute to my audio card. This M-Audio Fast Track Ultra isn't the most stable product on the market, but it met my needs at a fair price at the time I bought it, and worked flawlessly in a 32bit environment. 64bit, not so well. It's very frustrating when your in a position to where the problems you are having could be coming from hardware or software and there's no options to try out to troubleshoot.

jimknopf


Bub,

if you are uncertain of your card's driver quality, you could perhaps borrow other cards from friends to get that checked (especially easy with outboard cards). I have done that sometimes to narrow down sources of trouble, and sometimes really identified hardware/driver problems this way.

The only other way probably is waiting for 1Xb.

I don't know anyone who is in to recording the way I am. Actually, I don't know anyone at all where I currently live. Always been too busy with work to get to know anyone or have friends, which is another reason why it's so hard to find a job now that I got laid off. You pretty much have to know somebody to get hired anymore and I don't know anyone here in IA.

I was thinking of going down to Guitar Center and picking up a different brand of sound card and see if it makes any difference. They have a 30 day no questions asked return policy. I kind of feel bad for using them like that though, especially since those guys work on commission.

I'm patiently waiting for X1b. I'm sure a lot of things will be fixed, probably some we're not even aware of. :)