changing sounds in sd3

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M@ B
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2011/02/05 15:40:18 (permalink)

changing sounds in sd3

hi,
how do you change the open hihat without it changing the closed hihat?

thanks.

#1

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    M@ B
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/05 18:21:54 (permalink)
    haha, sorry, i read my own question just now and it seems a bit odd.

    in other words, from sd3 i opened a step sequencer and the sound of the open hat on the british rock kit does not work well with the song. in fact, it sounds more like a crash than an open hat.

    i'd like to change the selected open hi hat without changing the closed hihat which is working quite nicely. can this be done?

    hopefully that makes more sense than before.
    thanks again.

    #2
    HumbleNoise
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/05 18:32:12 (permalink)
    You can drag in ANY sound you want to any drum or pad with the mixer window open. Just drop the sound on the picture of the drum cymbol etc. Opens up huge possibilities.
    post edited by HumbleNoise - 2011/02/05 18:33:14

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    Larry

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    #3
    codamedia
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/05 18:52:25 (permalink)
    Larry: Problem is, when you drag a sound onto the hats, it seems to change ALL hats to that sound (the open, closed and pedal hats all become the new sound). I believe the OP wants to change just the open hat sound.

    It looks like Session Drummer uses Sound Fonts, so to build a kit with a different open hat I think you have to rebuild a sound font. It is relatively easy to swap a snare, kick, tom, etc... but the hats are a little more complicated.

    I hope I am wrong and someone can come up with a better answer.

    Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
     

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    #4
    M@ B
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/05 18:54:41 (permalink)
    thanks humblenoise. that sounds interesting, but i am only familiar with accessing the various other drum/cymbal files from the drumkit window by right clicking on either the "program" or the "drum" field. how do i access those drum/cymbal folders from the mixer window?

    also, in the step sequencer view, there are other instruments such as hand clap and side stick that are not on the kit it's self, i think that the snare is triggered when i click on it. how would i go about putting something else in their place?

    thanks.

    #5
    M@ B
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/05 18:56:59 (permalink)
    codamedia

      It is relatively easy to swap a snare, kick, tom, etc... but the hats are a little more complicated.



    yes, this the problem.




    #6
    HumbleNoise
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/05 19:14:24 (permalink)
    You can find or create ANY hat sound you like from anywhere. Create a wav file. Save it to the browser.

    Literally drag it (or absolutely any wav file) from the browser and drop it on one of the 'pads'. Find the MIDI key that fires that pad fire it from there.

    You would have to use the new pad key to fire the new hat sound but it may work depending on how you're set up to play the MIDI notes.

    Sorry I keep editing this post. I don't know of a way to change just the open hat in a SD hat sound file but the above method will work to get an open hat in another location and if you're using the PRV or the Step Sequencer it's super easy to map your MIDI notes to that MIDI location on your keyboard..
    post edited by HumbleNoise - 2011/02/05 19:21:46

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    #7
    codamedia
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/05 19:23:05 (permalink)
    Larry is right, you can easily drop the open hat sound your want onto a pad, then set your open hat pattern from SS to point to that pad instead of the note number in the hats (which would be 26 or 46 for an open hat). This will create another problem though. The Sound Font hats are set to mute each other (ie: the closed hat will mute the open hat which is very natural). That muting won't happen when triggered from another source.

    Here is a quick pointer on changing the hi-hat sound in a sound font.
    The Hat SoundFonts are well organized in the following folder (on a standard install):
    Program Files > Cakewalk > VSTPlugins > Session Drummer 3 > Contents > Kits > Hats

    The root of that folder holds your Sound Fonts which can be opened by a regular text editor (notepad for instance).
    The folders under that contain the Flac sound samples, that are referenced by the Sound Fonts. 

    What you need to do is open the soundfont you like, and replace the reference to the open hat with a reference to a different open hat in one of the other folders. Make sure you make a back of the file before editing it so you don't lose it for good.

    It's not an easy task, but it's also not that hard if you don't mind getting under the hood a little. It is just a text file.

    Good luck! 
    post edited by codamedia - 2011/02/05 19:25:43

    Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
     

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    HumbleNoise
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/05 19:24:46 (permalink)
    Awesome tip coda!

    Humbly Yours

    Larry

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    #9
    codamedia
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/05 19:30:32 (permalink)
    I just though of something that might be easier than my previous post (although that is not a bad thing to learn).

    Find a hat in one of the other folders you like, and copy it into the folder that contains the kit you are using. You will need to backup your old Open Hat file (so you don't lose it) then name the new file the same as the old file was so the SoundFont still references it without any editing.

    Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
     

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    M@ B
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/05 19:41:44 (permalink)
    edit: this post was in reply to post #7. (you guys are fast).

    i don't want my head to explode.
    this is where i can either get over loaded with the methodology,
    or just settle down and accept it and do it.

    the sonar master class drums videos did not demonstrate your suggestion, so i am not familiar with it. could you please explain the browser drag and drop procedure a little bit more?

    thanks.
    post edited by M@ B - 2011/02/05 19:43:42

    #11
    HumbleNoise
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/05 19:57:53 (permalink)
    MB,

    Check this video out. I didn't set this kit up with multiple outs so ignore the channel '1' for each sound in the kit. The technique should be obvious though.

    http://www.screencast.com...4f79-b106-6976f1106fc9

    Humbly Yours

    Larry

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    #12
    M@ B
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/05 20:29:14 (permalink)
    wow, thanks for the video explanation. very nice of you.
    i kind of knew what you were referring to as far as physically dragging and dropping the file, what i didn't know was how to find the file in the first place. from the kit view, it was basically just a right click away, but in the mixer view, having to go into the browser, i didn't know where to start looking for the hi hat variations for a particular kit.
    however, comedia provided the pathway to them (Program Files > Cakewalk > VSTPlugins > Session Drummer 3 > Contents > Kits > Hats) and i was just able to access them from the browser. i was planning on just dropping the new open hat into an unused tom location, but then there will be open/closed hat - mute/unmute issue since the midi note assignment for a tom will be inappropriate for a hihat.

    edit:
    i guess it's really just easiest, all things considered, to find another kit or another hat that works instead of catering to the closed hihat of the british rock kit. this is another lesson i learned here. if one things not working, there's plenty of other fish in the sea. i'm not married to the hi hat. i should be able to find another one. that one dilemma flat lined me and killed my vibe to create and i lost hours over a stinking open hihat. with something as complex as a daw, it's wise to pick an choose my battles. i can go around some obstacles, i don't have to go through every one of them. the trick is to be wise enough to know which one's are which. thank you agian for helping me with this. i learned a thing or two here.
     

    post edited by M@ B - 2011/02/05 21:51:37

    #13
    M@ B
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/06 21:14:48 (permalink)
    hello,
    the crash and ride cymbals aren't showing up on the step sequencer. why does this happen? can i replace unused instruments like the side stick and hand clap with the two cymbals?
    thanks.

    #14
    tlw
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/07 07:39:53 (permalink)
    the crash and ride cymbals aren't showing up on the step sequencer.

     
    This happens because, by default, there aren't enough rows in the step sequencer to show all the drums. Select the top row (click on the vertical lines to the left  of the row name) then hit the "+" button above anf to the left. This will add another row above the current top one, repeat as necessary until all the drums (or the ones you require, at least) are showing.
     
    Why Sonar doesn't display the full map in the SS by default is one of life's small mysteries.
     

    can i replace unused instruments like the side stick and hand clap with the two cymbals?

     
    The method given above in this thread will work for that. It's not exactly straightforward though. It's worth right-clicking on the drum pictures in the SD mixer view first though, and selecting each of the instruments shown in turn just to check what's been loaded to each MIDI note number by default. You may well find that what you want is already there, just on a different note number.
    #15
    M@ B
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    Re:changing sounds in sd3 2011/02/07 16:30:05 (permalink)
    thanks twl, it's simple enough  to add the missing cymbal rows, so that's what i'll try.

    you are right though, it does beg that question... especially when a side stick and a hand clap are there by default and a crash and ride are not.(??)
    ...whatever.

    thanks you saved me some grey hair.

    #16
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