Ok I was told to take a different approach

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BENZOFOG
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2011/02/09 23:53:05 (permalink)

Ok I was told to take a different approach

Recorded this song and the words mean alot to me so don't tell me to change them lol i dont care lol HOWEVER! please give me some idea of what i need to do to make the music betta....Love ya all...
 
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    Bub
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 01:00:13 (permalink)
    Love this song. The mix is way too muddy though. I loaded it up in Sonar and threw the analyzer on it and it's heavy on the low end and cut too sharp on the highs. I hope you don't mind but I liked the song so much I started to tinker with it a little while I had it in Sonar. I saved what I did as a .cwp file without the mp3 so it's really small.

    Just drag the mp3 you uploaded to sound click in to track one of this project and you'll see what I did to clean it up. I'm running Sonar 8.5.3 32 bit and I only used the plugins that came with Sonar so I hope it's compatible with what you're running. I opened it in X1 and it works in it too.

    Here's a midi file to help with the cymbal swell at the beginning. ;) I got it from Steven Slate's web site. Adding some flange effect to it sounds nice also.

    Hope this helps ... love the song! You have a unique voice and I like it a lot! I like dark music like this. :)

    Bub

    "I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
    #2
    RockingChair
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 01:22:05 (permalink)
         Excellent! Although I must say your hiding yourself and your talents. Put them out front and let 'em rip man! GO FOR IT!!! Don't be afraid of what your capable of because if you don't try you will never know, and don't worry about others opinions, in the end all that matters is it's your music and what matters to you.

     It sounds great to me, but I keep feeling like your holding back and wanting to turn it lose on this, turn it lose man, it sounds good as is, but I can hear you holding back.

    Just my opinion on what I hear, and BTW, Don't take opinions as a personal attack, they are what they are. Opinions.

    Very well done,

    Bobby


    #3
    rockinrobby
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 01:29:55 (permalink)
    Well it's loud? 

    I'm still in the beginning. Seems like I never feel nothing for me. It wants to get "bigger here..."

    And then when the 2nd verse comes in? I can make you love me? It needs to get bigger there for sure..

    I subscribe to the formula that music needs "to breath?" And this song is telling a story? But it's not breathing? Until the lead comes in. But it needs to breath up to that point? And afterwards... 

    (nice guitar playing) but I didn't like the tone, to me it was a bit shrill. When the words come in after that, it needs to be tighter... "together"

    But opinions are like noses? Everyone has one? And mine smells... Take it with a large amount of salt ;-)

    Good job overall.

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    Evil lurks here among us again... "Beware."
    #4
    BENZOFOG
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 01:34:44 (permalink)
    Thanks Bub,
    Wow! that was night and day difference I really liked it how much would you charge if i sent you some songs to dress up if ya want to....
    Thanks,
    Danny
    #5
    BENZOFOG
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 01:49:33 (permalink)
    Well Rob not quite sure what that exactly means but I have noticed that some of the words are not so clear...I kinda have the clarity singing thing wrapped in a mumble effect sometimes lol anyway....

    It's sad to say theres nothing for me
    The touch of your hand A love so bleak
    Emptyness is filling my day your never round
    All I ever wanted someday somehow

    Seems like you'll never feel Nothing for me
    I am your worst enemy

    I can't make you love me
    Make your empty heart bleed for me
    When I'm around it feels so cold
    Just sit in stair thru me into my soul

    Seems like you'll never feel Nothing for me
    I am your worst enemy

    I am not the one who ya think I am a careless heart
    so empty that don't give a damn
    Seems like you'll never feel nothing for me

    2010 DWW

    Song is about family.....of course
    #6
    BENZOFOG
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 01:52:11 (permalink)
    Ok RockinChair I will give it my all...Thanks very much....
    #7
    Bub
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 02:06:11 (permalink)
    Hi Danny,

    I don't mind helping you with some songs. I'm by no means a professional at this and I won't accept anything, but please check this out and consider it rather than pay me. I wish I could help him but I'm in a bad spot right now myself.

    I have a slow internet connection, so the best way to do this is probably upload an MP3 @ 320 to a site like Box.net (its free) and let me work with that, then I'll send you the .cwp file back like I did with this song and you can load your wav master in to it. Soundclick converts your mp3's down to low quality 128 mp3's. 320 mp3's are almost CD quality and Box.net won't convert it so that would be good for me to work with.

    Let me know.

    Thanks,

    Bub.

    "I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
    #8
    rockinrobby
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 02:21:29 (permalink)
    Music needs to "breath" that's the point I was making. I understand that's an abstract concept? But it's important... Music needs to breath...

    I can point you at a url? But it's probably going to be porn... So I'll resit... 

    I'll just say "again" It needs to breath...

    It needs to start

    It needs to grow

    It needs to come to a peak?

    Then it needs to wind down...

    While this formula doesn't fit for everything? 

    It fits for most things... 

    Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong? I don't claim to be an authority. But my **** is pretty damn good...

    Think of it as waves coming in from the ocean towards shore? To me, that's how it works... 


    It's not about a freaking web page? Or what people tell you? It's about feelings... It's about how the music speaks to you and to others. But it needs to breath... I know that's BS? But listen to the music you love? "It breathes..." It does.
    post edited by rockinrobby - 2011/02/10 02:32:33

    http://www.reverbnation.com/rockinrobby

    Evil lurks here among us again... "Beware."
    #9
    RockingChair
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 02:33:14 (permalink)
    BENZOFOG


    Ok RockinChair I will give it my all...Thanks very much....


    Good Luck!


    post edited by RockingChair - 2011/02/10 02:34:17

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    Kroneborge
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 10:42:13 (permalink)
    Nice song.  


    Mathew

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    #11
    bapu
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 14:10:42 (permalink)
    BENZOFOG,

    You have a good song there. Listen to Chris Issac and see if you can hear what Robby is saying. And Bub is right on too.

    It is an excellent start. With a few minor tweaks and a vocal re-do (with some dynamics in the performance) you could have a very good song and production.

    #12
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 14:59:04 (permalink)
    Hey... that sounded pretty good. I like the song.... I agree it was a bit muddy, but that's an easy fix.

    Looks like you're off to a good start.

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    #13
    radio
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 15:36:24 (permalink)

    I agree the mix needs to be worked on , your vocals were too loud in the mix .
    The music was too much of the same thing over and over , some changes would break things up and make your song sound more interesting to the listener .
    Good start .

    Radio

    #14
    bayoubill
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 15:57:49 (permalink)
    I like this song! As has been said it needs just a little work and development. Please listen to these guys. They have your best interest at heart and can guide to to a place in your music you didn't think you were capable of. A great start!

    SWAMP MUSIC
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    #15
    Peter Rabbit
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 16:41:53 (permalink)
    Danny:
    Interesting song, great composition, great vox, and well played. Really good job!
     
     
    Bub:
    I was interested in seeing what you did so I dowloaded both the mp3 file and the cwp file you created so I could see for myself.
     
    What a great idea! I'm glad you did that. It gave me an opportunity to see what others are doing while creating their projects.
     
    On my system it sounded better if I disabled both the Multiband Compressor and the Channel Tools as these two plug-ins seemed to flatten out the dynamics and the fullness of the sound too much. The other plug-ins I left as you had them and it sounded great.
     
    I think it would be interesting if more folks made available their projects the way you did so others can see what was done to obtain the sound mix. What a great way to learn things! Thanks for doing that.
     
    Pete

    "Creating a bad song takes just as much time and energy as creating a good one. The problem is that you don't know it's a bad song until someone tells you, and by then it's too late."
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    #16
    listen
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 17:26:53 (permalink)
    I like the song - I understand your telling a story...  I would have to agree with some of the previous comments reference holding back and the song breathing.

    I would have to explain it like if you were reading a story to a child - the things you wouild do to bring that story to life in expression, etc...   Is how you want to sing and or perform this song...

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    #17
    Bub
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/10 22:09:37 (permalink)
    Peter Rabbit


    Danny:
    Interesting song, great composition, great vox, and well played. Really good job!
     
     
    Bub:
    I was interested in seeing what you did so I dowloaded both the mp3 file and the cwp file you created so I could see for myself.
     
    What a great idea! I'm glad you did that. It gave me an opportunity to see what others are doing while creating their projects.
     
    On my system it sounded better if I disabled both the Multiband Compressor and the Channel Tools as these two plug-ins seemed to flatten out the dynamics and the fullness of the sound too much. The other plug-ins I left as you had them and it sounded great.

    I'm with you on the Channel Tools, I could go either way with that, but the Multi-band Comp, when I disabled that everything got really muddy again on my system. There are some things wrong that need to be fixed in the mix I think.
     
    I think it would be interesting if more folks made available their projects the way you did so others can see what was done to obtain the sound mix. What a great way to learn things! Thanks for doing that.
    Your welcome. I never really thought of it in that way, but you're right. I've often wanted to see how it's done by someone who knows what they are doing. The hard part would be when someone uses a plug that the other person doesn't have. That said, I'd put the Sonitus FX plug's up against anything else any day of the week. They still do a fine job.

    Bub.


    "I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
    #18
    jimmyman
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/11 03:03:44 (permalink)


        You mentioned that someone told you to take a different approach. Sometimes as
    writers the last thing that we need is someone being the opposite of encouraging.
    Many times another person doesn't share your enthusiasm in your works as you do.
    Of course we would want everyone to like and encourage us in what we do but that
    don't always happen. but sometimes even negative comments can help and shape
    us to be better writers or get better sounding recordings/mixes.

      To make matters worse a poor quality or sound of mix of a song doesn't help at all.
    Sometimes a poor quality sound may come across to the listener as we are holding
    back or a number of other things because that's what they hear. We may know what
    we'd like for it to sound like and have our own values in the song such as what it
    means to us so the challenge is to get that good recording/mix etc to a point
    where it represents itself.

      You've got some good things going on here in your song. Enough to show the
    potential. It's just a point of doing the things needed to bring out the quality of
    the writing and performance to a level where that it does it's best in "sounding
    good".

      The thing that I notice is the low mids on the vocals are strong enough to
    dominate the tone of the vocals so the clarity in hearing the words isn't there.
    Think of it as hearing someone speak to you and you hear the S's and the T's
    clearly as opposed to them putting there hand over their mouth and speaking.
    Call it a muffled sound.

     That's what you have here. Then there is no apparent ambiance or reverb type
    of sound on the vocs. That isn't needed to have a good sounding vocal but there
    is usually "something" of the nature of "big room" or larger size that the vocals
    sound like they're coming from that enhances the quality.

      If you can visualize what a voice sounds like when hearing a person speaking
    from say a small closet as opposed to hearing them speaking from a larger room
    the larger room sound will be more "appealing".

       It sounds like your vocs are recorded with you right at the mic which has that
    "proximity" effect. You may already know what that is but if not do a search on the
    net for what that is. All this that I'm speaking of is really just basic stuff and not
    specific as far as "do this EQ" or  do that reverb or whatever but I do so to
    hopefully give an insight as to things to look for and think about.

       Everyone here has given some good info on things. And I'd consider it a very
    high compliment for BUB want to take the time and help you out.
     
       There are a lot of great people here on the forum with some great knowledge
    just keep on doing what your doing and enjoy the fun of writing recording etc.
    and finding new ways to polish things and do quality works.

    post edited by jimmyman - 2011/02/11 03:06:20
    #19
    BENZOFOG
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/11 03:20:27 (permalink)
    Thanks Jimmy I really appreciate the kind words and information given. Now if my back wasn't hurting so bad I would record this weekend but I'm feeling worse then ever so I'm pretty much just laying around here lately....But if I can get an hour or so I'll gather up my stuff to the bed and have at it. Oh yea laying on the bed and recording.
    Thanks again,
    Danny

    Recording: Its whats for dinner!!!
    #20
    tyacko
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/11 08:10:30 (permalink)
    Sounds good to me.  It has a very dark and slow feel that gives it the feelings you are trying to express, so I think you nailed it.  My only suggestion is to nudge some of the timing of the backing vocals so they line up a bit better with the lead.  There are times where they sing early/late against the lead.

    Excellent work and thanks for sharing,
    Tom

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    #21
    thepogue
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/11 09:13:39 (permalink)
    you got loads of great advice here...but I'm goin to try to back up Robbie on a point with this "off the cuff" observation......

    I know we all have buddies that tell GREAT stories...they can tell you one and have you falling all over the place and plugged into every moment of the story! More times than not its the way they tell the story that draws you in and makes it work...the inflection of their voice...the varying tone...the "peeks and valleys" that engage you to "plug-in" to the story and make it a memorably ride. We also ALL have friends that suck at telling stories...even if they witness a bank robbery they couldn't covey the event with any interest! Think about how and why that might be? No emotion? flat tone? no ebb and flow...no peak to the story? And what you end up with a boring back robbery!!...weird huh?

    I think that if we take the above thought process and apply it to a vocal delivery of a tune the same elements come into play. I feel that if we tell this "story" (song) in a way that is engaging to the listener they can "plug in" and make it there own. I think the style of delivery is way less an important issue then the "emotional interest" is.......meaning that John Denver, Lamb of God and Mel Torme are all successful in being good "story tellers" they just use totally different styles to do so....so again it's not a style issue (for me).

    One last point....there are many many bands (over time) that have hug their hats on a monotone and/or repetitive type vocal delivery...but when its been very successful they have over emphasized that fact and made full use of it (DEVO, The Cars and Tom Waits comes to mind) so its the middle ground that I'd want to avoid and make sure that whatever delivery style/mechanism you use...jump in 100%.

    So all that to say this..the point Robbie tried to bring to the table is something that is not at all a concept that one needs to "agree" with but IMHO it's one highly important to understand.....Good call Mr. Robbie


    some very decent work here on this tune...so
    Keep on keepin!!
    #22
    Black_Haus
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/11 10:28:32 (permalink)
    Benzo,


    These are some great lyrics!  The "worst enemy" line is a fantastic hook.  I agree with some of the other suggestions here.  I think the vocals should come in a bit later to let the song sort of build and get rolling before you start singing.  You've obviously got some skills.  I really like this though.  There is a load of emotion coming through & that makes it ten times better than most of the stuff you hear today.
    #23
    57Gregy
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    Re:Ok I was told to take a different approach 2011/02/11 11:20:25 (permalink)
    The music sounds fine. Vox, good. Instruments, ditto.
    Good song.
    Is this the original song (the 'muddy' mix mentoned above) or an updated version? Doesn't sound too muddy here.
    Good work!

    Greg 
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    #24
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