With a Plek Plek here...

Hey Spacey!

Cool article! Something I didn't know;)
It's interesting to read about the fact that it's no guarantee that it will yield perfect results. It means, no machine can ever replace humans as guitar builders. And that's a good thing;)

You know, -I was seriously contemplating going to the instrument builder school over here and was just about to apply for it. Then it moved really far away and I picked up a pen in stead. I somewhat regret that. It would be a rewarding occupation I think.

$235?

I have a mid 1960' Kustom K200B with the worst neck on the planet... it's so bad I've thought about having a new neck built for it.

I have it set for slide as a compromise for maintaining some value in it.

Maybe I should send it in just to see the response I get?

:-)

ProjectM- It has been for me. It has been very expensive but
I plan on doing it for as long as I'm able and would like to get
good enough to build acoustic's too.
Unfortunately it takes a lot of time and has pulled me away from
playing/recording. I hope to find a balance but I have to reach
a "goal" or level that I want to achieve first.
I've learned a great deal about the instrument I enjoy so much and
that has been a great reward. The gained knowledge in that I may
be able to help other guitarist is fantastic too.

Yeah Wookiee with the CNC's and the Plek it's sure making building
instruments interesting.
What's strange to me is that I'm making it a point to build necks that
one will have a hard time flexing with their strength and their talking
about necks that gravity pulls on ?
I haven't tried it but I think I could throw my Strat across the room
and it would hold pitch....until it landed lol. And geeze a seven-ply
with graphite rods is going to bend to gravity?? I don't think so. 
I  could probably use it to do chin-ups and not get a half-step!


Mike, I don't know about the value of those machines but I'll keep
hands on too. No choice anyway.

drewfx1


but the machines are always improving...

By the humans that build them?
 

drewfx1


My experience is that humans tend to vastly overrate their abilities compared to machines.

There are still many things humans do much better than machines, but the machines are always improving...

There's truth to that... when my CNC mill gets all pissed of and goes of the chain... it makes me seem like a ineffectual trouble maker.

That thing can do a number on what I've bolted into the jig... it can make a way bigger mess than I ever could all by my lonesome... and you never quite know when it's going to happen.


I bought one of these recently:



and it cuts straighter lines than either of my table saws.



I think when a job requires more well considered judgment than work... that by hand is still a viable process because the machines just don't bring enough benefit to the scenario.

I certainly love machines and am prepared to defend the use of power tools in any discussion that tries to diminish their contribution to a "hand made" product. I am comfortable using a power tool and subsequently claiming that I made something by hand.


Just rambling. :-)

"a tilting table top for putting a guitar in the “playing position” — eliminating gravity and the weight of the neck as a factor in the fretboard’s configuration."

Sheesh. Now that is a case of imagination without quantification run amok. This is the mechanical engineer's version of monster cable.

I get dizzy easy.

If there was a guitar that was hand built and one that was machine built and one that was both I'm not sure what folks would think. ( assuming that all were excellent guitars)

I do know that since I can build a guitar (and maybe a bass) I see no reason that
I would ever buy one again no matter how it was made.

I believe most Luthiers feel that every guitar they build is unique and has it's own mojo.
I think that is lost at a facility like PRS. Maybe not in their custom shop where one luthier
may be the only one that works on the guitar. ( if they do that like Fender)
And as a builder when I think of a luthier there walking down an isle of guitars that
are identical it has to be strange. Kinda like walking down an isle of human clones.
spooky sound inserted here..........



 

Let's talk about the Plek,

It seems to me that it takes more time to bolt a guitar into the machine properly than it will take a competent luthier to mill the frets by hand.

That's the thing about that machine... you have to figure out how to bolt a guitar into it without screwing up the guitar and you have to make sure the neck is placed properly... and you have to string it up and unstring it while it's bolted to it's door.

Then you have to let it scribe/scan/touchy feel the frets and then you have to interpret all that, as a human, then you have to choose, as a human, a preference for hi to low compensation and fall off, and then you let it gobble up some metal with it's rotary cutter, and then you have to hand polish the frets... if it gobbled the metal correctly.

It's an awful lot of machine for something people have been doing with a nice mill file or stone with competence and ease.

It also seems that the goal of making the actual process of milling the frets in an automated start to finish sequence  makes it less likely that the craftsman or operator will be considerate of the subtle nuances a player might appreciate. How many times are you going to pull the strings and restring while that thing is in the jig? You are surely not going to get a chance to test play it when you are half way through the job... unless you want to start the process over from scratch.

PLEK doesn't place the frets and it has only slightest effect on intonation... the guitar as we know it isn't ideally intonated anyways...  there are more demanding issues when building a guitar neck than *fretting* over the final fret dress.

It may require some experience and hopefully some training to learn to dress frets by hand, but it seems like this machine requires even more training and possibly makes the process longer and more tedious.

That might be worthwhile if it actually served some purpose... but it appears to me that it remains little more than a bragging right for the very few people who have chosen to purchase and make use of these machines.

I don't think I'd pay a guy who charges $15 dollars to take your guitar out of it's shipping box and extra $235 so that one of his shop apprentices can bolt my guitar in that machine.

I've paid a lot less for excellent results done by hand and I have learned to provide myself with more than satisfactory results using techniques I learned from Mr Erlewine and hand tools that I have purchased at Stewart MacDonald.

It's just not that complicated.

And when it's all considered I remind my self of all the great music that has been played on both primitively built instruments as well as some of the finest instrument we will ever know. Hand made instruments have brought us great pleasure.

best regards,
mike

spacey

drewfx1

spacey

I believe most Luthiers feel that every guitar they build is unique and has it's own mojo. 
I think that is lost at a facility like PRS. Maybe not in their custom shop where one luthier
may be the only one that works on the guitar. ( if they do that like Fender)
And as a builder when I think of a luthier there walking down an isle of guitars that
are identical it has to be strange. Kinda like walking down an isle of human clones.
spooky sound inserted here.......... 

But when we think this way, are we really getting at something, or are we just ascribing human (or even spiritual) characteristics to inanimate objects? Can any hunk of wood and metal and plastic have any "mojo" beyond being a nice sounding playable instrument?

Are you kidding? If not I have to think you've never built an instrument. If you have built one....I feel you missed
the most rewarding experience and opportunity to play one loaded with mojo.
Are we to say that the luthier building with his heart and soul thinks it's only wood, metal and plastic? If you
do....Ok.  But I don't.


Does the guitar you make have any magic of it's own, or is it just a beautiful and unique tool to express your mojo?

I believe your's is only a beautiful and unique tool based on your questions.
Mine is loaded with not only mojo but it's a symbol of an accomplishment that I always wondered if I could achieve
and did. It's an instrument that represents a year of my life studying, learning, monetary investment and effort to achieve
rather than dream.
Is having a dream of such a task and then completing it not magical? If you think not I can assure you it's a very magical
feeling when you plug that baby in and it fills your head with that mojo that only comes from a very fine instrument.
My mojo? Fortunately I have mojo to most everything I'm interested in being good at.....so yeah I apply it to guitar too.
And I've never had a problem doing that with any guitar that was playable. Well at least for many years ago...there was
a time when my hands were to small for some of them.

The point I was trying to make is the mojo you speak of in your creation is yours - it's a reflection of you, your workmanship, your aesthetics - and that the magic is not in the object itself, but that the object is an expression of, or a conduit of, your own magic. This does not mean one creation cannot be superior to another, but that if one guitar seems "magical" it's because it is superior in some way, rather than being superior because it's somehow magical.


And the other point was that if you ascribe your own mojo (or magic or whatever) to an inanimate object, you end up with less of it - if you give some of something away by definition you will have less. The idea is that I don't like giving human qualities to inanimate objects because in the process it lessens our own unique human magic.



The "sorry" was for the off topic philosophical rambling. Sorry again.

As long as this machine is not networked so that when Skynet becomes self aware it does not gain control of such power technology and automation.

I don't really have an optinion on getting an older neck Plekd, but the frets on my Les Paul 58 VOS were done with the Plek machine and I certainly have no complaints. I don't really see how some guy doing it by hand would do a better job.

Here is a very interesting guy with his own feelings.
I'm sure he welcomes others to believe whatever they choose.

Hendrix fans be sure to check it out....DerGeist don't watch it, it'll only upset you.

DerGeist


Telling me not to watch it only makes me want to see it more :)
 
Youtube is blocked where I am anyway (stupid prison)....

LOL....you'll like it. Watch it tonight. A chance to see and hear one of our great luthiers.
Mojo's just a word that's not even used right in my opinion.
I hear, "something special" when it's used.
The Hendrix part is very cool...I've never heard what he has to say.