Please help me decided between 2 guitar cabs for recording Useing a Egnater Tweeker head

Hi all

So as Ive said in posts before up untill now I have done all of my Guitar tracks Di Useing Vamp pro or plugins.

I have decided its time to learn to record and mic up Guitar cabs.

I am going to buy the Egnator Tweaker 15 watt head at the begining of the month http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/Egnater-Tweaker

I played the Tweeker a few weeks ago and was blowen away by it especialy for the price I also tryed the Rebel 20 but I prefered the Tweeker.

I cant decide what cab is best for me though..... The Egnater cab or I have a line 6. 4 X 12 cab in my loft I could bring down and use wth it or buy two of the 1X12 Egnater cabs :)

Is there any pros or cons from recording a 4x12 compared to a 1X12 ?

I will be useing a choice of Sm57 mic or SE R1 Ribbon mic on whateather I decide on.

I will be glad for any help on decideing what to use I dont have a problem with buying the egnater cab but if my line 6 will do as good a job then It would give me a few hundred to spend on something else :)

Thanks for all help on this

Norrie

gustabo


Use Impulse Responses.
Buy Recabinet or Redwirez.
This way you'll have all the cabs that you might possibly want.

Would that not take away from useing and learning to mic the cab though ?

I havent looked in to the programs you have listed but I thougth they were for useing with plugins ?

Sorry for haveing to ask just I have never used them.

Norrie

Now for the long answer...........

Norrie,
No one can help you decide between two cabs and how to mic them because the possibilities are theoretically endless.
No one knows what sound you are looking for but yourself.
No one can tell you what mic to use but you through trial and error.
One person may have great results with an SM57 while another will have great results with an MD421.
I spent/wasted a whole year trying to come up with "my" sound. After using the Redwirez impulse responses, I was finally able to achieve "my" sound using an IR of a Mesa cabinet loaded with V30's mic'd with an MD421 off-axis at the cap combined with an IR of a Mesa cabinet loaded with V30's mic'd with an RE20 off-axis at the cone.
I auditioned countless cabinets at countless mic'ing positions and distances with various brand mics through this method.
There is no way I could have afforded that even by just renting the equipment, if that was possible.

Norrie


I cant decide what cab is best for me though..... The Egnater cab or I have a line 6. 4 X 12 cab in my loft I could bring down and use wth it or buy two of the 1X12 Egnater cabs :)

I misunderstood what you want. Deciding which cab is "best for you" is different than learning how to mic a cab. When you said you were going to learn how to mic and record cabinets, I understood it was for yourself and for a sound that you were looking for, for yourself, since you mentioned that you can get the sound that you want with the Egnater.

You can actually learn a lot about mic'ing techniques through the Redwirez site even through their free impulses. You can hear how on-axis, off-axis, cap, cone edge, etc. will give you a different sound.

I have a lot of experience on mic'ing gtr cabs from when I was a professional monitor engineer but in the end, it all has to do with capturing the sound the guitarist wants and this is through trying mic'ing techniques and mic's with his/her rig until happiness is achieved.

It's not that I'm unwilling to help because I actually am trying to help right now but how can a person decide which cab is best for you? I've mic'd many cabs on many tours with many different mics but yet it took me a year to dial in MY sound. All I can suggest is pick one and start playing with it.

Regarding how the Egnator would hold up, make sure your load is right (ohmage). For example

You said you already have a Line 6 4x12, bring it down and start playing with it. At least you can play with multiple mic setups much easier on a 4x12 than with a 1x12.

Norrie

All you seem to have done is come on and start your carry on by that I meen you give the impression you dont want to help this is about the 6th time from my count you have done this to one of my threads.

I was actually one of the first if not the first to help you when you needed help with the Pro Tools session files for which you still owe me a beer!

I generally agree with Mike and Guitarhacker with one small exception, open back and closed back cabs sound different from each other and material used in the construction of the cabinet may offer some minor differences too, how different will depend on volume and amp tone because the materials used may cause the cab to resonate but all in all, cabs are pretty much the same.

Speakers, above all, matter the most which is why my preference, like I had specifically mentioned, is V30's.
Then again, that is my opinion.

The mic placement and mic choice, which I had previously mentioned, is for the sound that I am after.

In the end, there is no right or wrong way as far as I'm concerned, if it sounds good, use it, no matter how or what you have to do to make it sound that good! If you're happy with it, that's all that matters!

Check out the Tweaker roundtable at:  http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=789495

This is quite a long on going discussion that hits items such as cabs, speakers and even trying different tubes in the Tweaker.  The Tweaker 1x12 cab gets pretty good reviews by many users.  Most of the users prefer 1x12 or 2x12 cabs with the amp.  Main thing is to make sure you have the cab plugged into the correct output depending on the impedence. 

The main thing is to experiment until you find the sounds you want. 

BTW, I love this amp!

Jim

Mike has the ultimate answer...  
 
FWIW, I've played thru both the Tweaker and Rebel 1x12 cabs.
The Tweaker cab (open) didn't have enough low end thump for me... so I went with the sealed Rebel cab.
 

Interestingly enough, a gifted guitarist friend and I were testing these very things together this past weekend.  He already owns an Egnater Rebel 20 but is very impressed with the Tweeker and will most likely get one for studio work (keep in mind that his main amp is an Engl Powerball II).  We both agreed however that the best sounding speaker cabinet for the Tweeker was the Egnater 2-12 cab.  It has incredible depth and harmonic content, far superior to the 1-12 and the Teekers 20 watts was able to drive it comfortably in clean, crunch and overdriven conditions.  The 2-12 sounded as good or better to both of us than the 4-12!  Go figure.  I know guitar sound it totally subjective but given that I am primarily a keyboard player first, recording engineer second, and that my guitarist friend owns or has owned every major amp imaginable, the fact that we both loved the Tweeker thought the 2-12 says some things about the sound quality.  Add to that the ability to open the vent port in the rear of that cabinet and you have a vast variety of miking options.  Hope this helps.

after years of playing thru all different kinds of cabs, when it was time to buy a new cab for recording, i chose an Avatar Vintage Closed back 1x12 cab.
i loaded it with a quality driver, a Celestion Heritage Series G12-H55.

for the tone, versus cost, this one came out ahead of everything else i ever tried.

i haven't played everything ever made, but i've played a bunch of em.....
and to a certain degree, you can compare certain quality and dimensions and materials, and come up with some practical assumptions.


what i've found from actual application in live and studio, is that the choice of size of cabinet and number of speakers, all depends on how you get your tone....

if you need massive thunk, you need a 4x12, and move air.
that means loud.

a 2x12 is a good compromise between the size and weight of the 4x12, and the thump you can get AT VOLUME..........

in my case, i ride the fence between volume and focused tone.
i found that the closed back 1x12 works best for me.

a close mic on a speaker, doesn't pick up much of the cabinet thump... it mostly only hears the speaker, so the number of them doesn't really matter to the mic.

you only get that big cabinet sound and room sound happening when you start moving the mic back, or using a close mic in conjunction with a room mic.

open backs, have a completely different vibe, and honestly, you need to try them all, before deciding.

there is no other way to find out what you like, except to actually play through it.

no amount of reading, or forum opinion, will ever educate you to the point where you KNOW what you KNOW.
LOL
know what i mean......?

Any one know anything about Celestion speekers and Custom Celestion speekers ?

I have a very old line 6 4 x 12 that I bought with a Spider II head I cant find out for the life of me what speekers are actualy in it but on the line 6 web site there spider cabs are custom Celestion

Any one know if thats what they used then or if there any good ?

I am off to try a load of cabs tomorow and trying to decide if its worth luging my 4x12 to the shops to compare it against others

Thanks for any info any one can offer

Norrie

mike_mccue


here's a pair of "new" made in 1973 JBL D110F speakers that sold on Ebay this morning:

I was going to bid if the pair stayed below $600-

They didn't:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eB...name=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

This will give you some idea of how particular a guitar player might be about their choice of speakers.

Lucky for me I already have 3 of this speaker model from the same era... but goodness the ones that sold today sure seemed sweet.

The item has been removed now :(

I know little about speekers and recording them but I will learn :)

I just want to find a good Rock sound and a good clean sound for recording and I will be happy

Norrie

mike_mccue


bummer, I guess I can still see the page from my browser cache.

To make a long story short, someone, this morning, bought a pair of 10" alnico speaker drivers (and no cabinet) designed by Mr. Harvey Gherst and made by JBL in 1973 for $1025.00 USD because there will probably never be a set of 10" speakers built to that standard of quality ever again. The sound those speakers make has yet to be reproduced by any tribute speaker... it's not that these are the *best* speakers for everyone... it's just that if they are the best speakers for *you*, you can accept no substitutes.

That is where the quest for tone takes you....to specific personal preferences.

Good luck!

best regards,
mike

Tottaly with you man!

Yeah I agree my main thing at the momment is finding a good tone for me and thats a sweet cleen sound and good american rock sound creed type shinedown stone teple pilots sound etc. I alwasy got this with the mesas in the past but my funds cand stretch to another dual rec or an Stilleto at the momment ( one day i will get the Stileto again)

I am going to try out as much as I can tomorow and pick whats best for me then wory about what I might ned for recording other people at a later date

I think this will be the plan anyway :)