Can I temporarily over ride a tempo map?

I don't think there's anyway to override the tempo map in Sonar. Maybe work on the part you want in a separate project and then when you've got that part recorded and sounding the way you want you can copy it over into your main project.

g_randybrown


In the tempo view I've drawn in from 120 BPM down to 78 BPM...I thunk of another part and now I need to slow it down to half speed to be able play it.
Is there a way to do this without messing up my tempo map?
Thanks very much,
Randy

It's fairly easy.  Check out Process/Fit-to-Time in the doc.  You can make the piece twice as long, add your new parts, and then make the piece half as long.
 
It'd be nice if we could do this right in the tempo view itself, like some other DAW's I've heard bout (hint, hint, CW!!!!).

Yes, I suggested a way to save TEMPO maps so you could reload the original tempo maps after you played with it awhile.  I got SHOUTED down in the forum. :-)

No worries though, the idea of creating another version of your project and playing with the tempo and then copying the MIDI track back into the original project without the new tempo works too but just is the long way to the destination.

How you would do this with AUDIO is beyond me.

Jim

Years ago I used a midi sequencer package that could do Tempo tracks. You could just mute and play them and the song would change. I got very used to that approach, of course, years later after moving to cakewalk I had a client that *really* liked tempo changes throughout some songs. It was gruelling setting up a new song and have him agree on the tempo sections. Either a tempo track, or maybe the addition of a tempo envelope for quickly testing and undoing changes.<shrug>
 
Gary

A tempo track sounds like a great idea. I like the idea of a tempo envelope too. The ability to add nodes and copy parts of the tempo map would be great. One thing I'd like to be able to do is to "split" a tempo map and then have it move with the corresponding tracks. For example, if a song has a complex tempo map, and then you want to re-arrange the song, I don't know how to make the tempo map move with the corresponding tracks. Is this possible? I am fairly sure the clips just move relative to the fixed tempo map. This is really critical especially for situations where a song played in free time is subsequently tied to a variable grid (so you can overlay drum loops etc over material played live without a click). It is quite tedious to align everything to the grid using "set now time", but if you rearrange the song all this mapping needs to be done again unless I have missed something.

Somerset

Years ago I used a midi sequencer package that could do Tempo tracks. You could just mute and play them and the song would change. I got very used to that approach, of course, years later after moving to cakewalk I had a client that *really* liked tempo changes throughout some songs. It was gruelling setting up a new song and have him agree on the tempo sections. Either a tempo track, or maybe the addition of a tempo envelope for quickly testing and undoing changes.<shrug>

Gary

For example, if a song has a complex tempo map, and then you want to re-arrange the song, I don't know how to make the tempo map move with the corresponding tracks. Is this possible?

A tempo track sounds like a great idea. I like the idea of a tempo envelope too. The ability to add nodes and copy parts of the tempo map would be great. One thing I'd like to be able to do is to "split" a tempo map and then have it move with the corresponding tracks. For example, if a song has a complex tempo map, and then you want to re-arrange the song, I don't know how to make the tempo map move with the corresponding tracks. Is this possible? I am fairly sure the clips just move relative to the fixed tempo map. This is really critical especially for situations where a song played in free time is subsequently tied to a variable grid (so you can overlay drum loops etc over material played live without a click). It is quite tedious to align everything to the grid using "set now time", but if you rearrange the song all this mapping needs to be done again unless I have missed something.

Currently if you want to re-arrange a song, you can cut/paste a section and check "Tempo Changes" and that will work. If that is what you mean?
 
I was trying to think of a song example of what my client liked that was difficult to achieve...mostly cause he was hovering behind me while I was fumbling with drawing lines in the tempo map...I came up with Meat Loaf's Paradise by the Dashboard Lights, or maybe Bohemian Rhapsody. He liked those gradual slow downs and speed ups, and of course wanted to A/B...which was a pain. I think I ended up saving to different project names and switching back and forth until we agreed.
 
With tempo tracks, you could simply create a new tempo track, or copy the current one and modify it. I imagine only one tempo track would be allowed to play back at a time, so if you engaged one of multiple tempo tracks the others would be auto-muted, then you could quickly switch among them until you find the right settings. The cut and paste would work like it does now if you needed to re-arrange...copying all tempo changes for that section in all existing tempo tracks. Something to think about anyways.
 
Gary
 

er.. fuggedaboudit

sorry, my bad. I didn't read the thread thoroughly. 

There's probably a way using 'select all' and audiosnap to slow down and then reverting later when you've learnt the track. 

Or, less destructively, to bounce the part out to another wav file, slow down the new wav by 50% in in another project to learn it, then import your new audio file back in.  

Just needs a bit of imagination.

Or, less destructively, to bounce the part out to another wav file, slow down the new wav by 50% in in another project to learn it, then import your new audio file back in.   Just needs a bit of imagination.

Thanks Paul but it's not a matter of learning the part it's a matter of executing/playing it that fast.
Thanks again,
Randy

g_randybrown

Or, less destructively, to bounce the part out to another wav file, slow down the new wav by 50% in in another project to learn it, then import your new audio file back in.   Just needs a bit of imagination.

Thanks Paul but it's not a matter of learning the part it's a matter of executing/playing it that fast.
Thanks again,
Randy

same method applies. Or write simpler parts. 

corrupted


If it is just a midi recording that you are trying to do...

1) "Save As" a new filename that you can throw away later
2) modify the tempo map or delete all tempo entries
3) record your midi part
4) re-open the original project
5) copy your new midi clip in to the old project

No?

If a project is MIDI only...there is (or used to be) an offset mode (Tempo Ratio)...that used to be mapped to the 1, 2 and 3 keys...and you could set those ratios to whatever you wanted.  It was a multiplier that was applied to the entire tempo map.  When any audio found its way into the project, the tempo ratio stuff would be disabled.

I think this has fallen out with X1 though.

gefitch

Somerset

Years ago I used a midi sequencer package that could do Tempo tracks. You could just mute and play them and the song would change. I got very used to that approach, of course, years later after moving to cakewalk I had a client that *really* liked tempo changes throughout some songs. It was gruelling setting up a new song and have him agree on the tempo sections. Either a tempo track, or maybe the addition of a tempo envelope for quickly testing and undoing changes.<shrug>

Gary

For example, if a song has a complex tempo map, and then you want to re-arrange the song, I don't know how to make the tempo map move with the corresponding tracks. Is this possible?

A tempo track sounds like a great idea. I like the idea of a tempo envelope too. The ability to add nodes and copy parts of the tempo map would be great. One thing I'd like to be able to do is to "split" a tempo map and then have it move with the corresponding tracks. For example, if a song has a complex tempo map, and then you want to re-arrange the song, I don't know how to make the tempo map move with the corresponding tracks. Is this possible?  

Currently if you want to re-arrange a song, you can cut/paste a section and check "Tempo Changes" and that will work. If that is what you mean?
       
With tempo tracks, you could simply create a new tempo track, or copy the current one and modify it. I imagine only one tempo track would be allowed to play back at a time, so if you engaged one of multiple tempo tracks the others would be auto-muted, then you could quickly switch among them until you find the right settings. The cut and paste would work like it does now if you needed to re-arrange...copying all tempo changes for that section in all existing tempo tracks. Something to think about anyways.
 
Gary
 

Thank you!! Yes I though I might have forgotten something ...as it doesn't make sense if you can 't move parts of the song around without the overall tempo map moving with the parts. The trouble is that I usually don't use "cut and paste" and don't see the dialog box (I might "select all", split at now, and just move things over a few bars for example). Anyway I'll try your suggestion tonight. I think your ideas about tempo tracks are brilliant. It would be awesome to be able to manage tempo changes using a tempo track which is always aligned to the audio/MIDI tracks. The current tempo view is not specifically aligned (even if docked AFAIK). It's a bit like the old "audio view" in Pro Audio, where the audio view was independent of track view.