Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded.

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NashvilleKat1968
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2011/03/16 18:07:58 (permalink)

Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded.

I just recently switched to Cakewalk from Cubase and am having problems with my setup.
 
Pre-DAW I used a Boss DR-880 drum machine for years It's still a great piece of equipment and I have programmed drum tracks with it that has fooled many a drummer. When I first got into the world of DAW, I bought a Lexicon Lamda interface and it came bundled with Cubase LE. I hated Cubase from the get-go but learned it kicking and screaming every step of the way. I discovered EZDrummer not long after and used the DR-880 to trigger the amazing sounds in EZDrummer and recorded it in Cubase as a midi track.
 
I just recently purchased MC5 (basically for the Sound Center plug-in) and was blown away by the intuitive controls and user-friendliness of the controls. The problem is that I can't seem to get the software to record the MIDI data the way I did in Cubase. In Cubase when I put the DR-880 in MIDI mode (meaning the drum machine was operating as a slave) it would receive start and stop signals from Cubase. So when I hit record Cubase would begin the drum machine playing and it in turn would trigger EZDrummer. Cubase would record the EZDrummer data as midi, editable in the drum editor view.
 
Now that I'm using Cakewalk I can't get it to work the same way. I actually changed the drum machine's MIDI mode to INTERNAL (meaning it is the master) and hit play and it triggers EZDrummer so I know my cables, etc, are set up correctly. (Same thing works in AUTO mode on the drum machine where it acts as both master and slave). However, when I switch the drum machine back to MIDI mode nothing happens. I'm opening an instrument track, bringing up ezdrummer, arming the track, and when I hit record MC5 appears to be recording but I hear nothing and no midi data is recorded. (By the way I also have L/R audio coming out of the machine to hear audio).
 
My track inputs/outputs are set to my interface as a midi device. I've also tried OMNI mode and still can't get MC5 to trigger the drum machine to start when I hit record.
 
I'm not sure what I'm missing here. I know it will probably prove to be something simple but I'd appreciate any help the community could give.
 
Thanks
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    chuckebaby
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/03/16 18:33:11 (permalink)
    sorry but the post was so long i got a little lost...not that its a bad thing..lol..go in to sonar..hit P on the keyboard to bring up your preferences..go to make sure you menu is in advanced mode..go to clock..now click on midi..its to the right of audio..make sure youll all conected with cables first..and im assuming ez is all routed and sound coming out.now press play in the control module..sonar will trigger your drum machine..as long as your drum machine is set up to be the master you should have no probs..i do it all the time ...important..after your track is done..press cancel to escape. if this doesnt work get back to me with small details..dont for get to set the synth menu ..check midi out. dont open an instrument track either..just click..insert soft synth,then click ezdrummer.youll be prompt to the synth menu.read up on that..just make sure midi out is checked
    post edited by chuckebaby - 2011/03/16 18:37:49

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    #2
    chuckebaby
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/03/16 18:38:56 (permalink)
    got a few other tricks to help you out too after we fix this.

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    57Gregy
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/03/16 18:45:31 (permalink)
    Welcome to the forum.
    First, don't use an instrument track.
    Start with a standard MIDI track. Set it's input to your MIDI device (Lambda, either MIDI Omni or the specific channel the Boss transmits on [my Alesis SR-16 defaults to ch. 10]). Select an output channel and patch.
    Go to Insert at the top, choose SoftSynths and EZD. Deselect the box that reads 'Create MIDI Source Track'.
    Once EZD is inserted, change the output of the MIDI track from Lambda to EZD. Hit a few pads on the Boss, and if you hear it, that's good.
    Arm the MIDI track, click the Record button in the transport. If the Boss is correctly set up to play, the MIDI data should be recorded.

    Greg 
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    NashvilleKat1968
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/03/18 05:27:13 (permalink)
    I appreciate everyone's help. 

    @chuckebaby - I'm not using one of the versions of Sonar, I'm using MC5. When I use the shortcut command (P) it doesn't bring up preferences, but "Project" so I'm not sure which menus the info you're telling me would be found in. I do appreciate the help though.

    @57Gregy - These instructions have gotten me much closer to solving the issue, but I'm still not there. I added a new MIDI track. I set its input to my Lamda (I've tried both MIDI Omni and channel 10 which is what my drum machine uses as well). My output is set to EZDrummer. I went to INSERT at the top and chose SoftSynths and EZDrummer. A dialogue opened that says "Insert Softsynth Options".  The dialogue box reads at the top, "Insert soft synth into project and Create These Tracks..." beneath that are several options, "Single Instrument Track", "MIDI Source", "Synth Track Folder", "First Synth Audio Output (which is the default checked) and options for "All Synth Outputs (both a stereo and mono version). I currently have checked only the default. When I hit the pads on the Boss drum machine, it triggers the sounds in my EZDrummer just fine. I can switch between expansion packs in EZDrummer and the sounds change as I hit the pads on the drum machine, so I know I'm set up correctly. Also when I hit the pads the meters on both the transport and the track light up.

    Then I arm the track to record. The metronome gives me a two measure count-in and.... silence. The drum machine doesn't start playing. The transport rolls as if it's recording but nothing is being recorded. The pre-programmed song in the drum machine doesn't advance from the starting point and move throughout the song either. However, if I play the pads manually, MIDI info is recorded. So my issue is getting the drum machine to respond to the record of MC5's transport controls. I have the drum machine set to be a slave (MIDI mode). I've also tried setting it to be the master (INTERNAL mode), and to act as both master and slave at the same time (AUTO mode). I'm stumped.

    David
    #5
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/03/18 08:41:41 (permalink)
    Hey David, I think I understand what you're trying to do, but since I don't have a drum machine I can't replicate the scenario here.

    I'll let those guys help you with the main issue. My question is, Since you have moved to a digital DAW work environment, why not take advantage of the many varied and assorted drum tools that are available?

    I too used a programmable drum machine back in the days of tape. I thought it was really cool, and it was. When I discovered how easy it was to work with the drum synths, my mind was totally blown away at the sound quality and the ease of creating and editing a midi synth drum track.

    As a work around until you figure it out in MC..... since you have the DR-880 working in the other DAW...why not use it to outload the tracks in it as MIDI and import them into MC5 then learn the Session Drummer and the other cool drum synths on the market?

    my 2 centavos....



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    Beagle
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/03/18 09:39:52 (permalink)
    David,
    This statement has me concerned and if it is indeed what is going on then that's your problem.

    I added a new MIDI track. I set its input to my Lamda (I've tried both MIDI Omni and channel 10 which is what my drum machine uses as well).  My output is set to EZDrummer. I went to INSERT at the top and chose SoftSynths and EZDrummer. A dialogue opened that says "Insert Softsynth Options". 

    If you followed these steps explicitly in order, then you already have your output of your MIDI track set to EZDrummer BEFORE you insert EZDrummer.  what that tells me is that you have more than one instance of EZD on your project and that you have set your MIDI track to output to one of them but then you insert EZD again and your output is now on another one.  open the synth rack view and see how many EZD synths you have in the synth rack.

    The next problem is that your DR-880 may not be mapped output to the same notes that EZD is.  First, I think EZD is not GM mapped, but I'll try to confirm that later.  your first step is to look at your output from the DR-880 because I doubt that it is GM mapped.  (NOTE:  this is one of my pet peeves.  what's the point of having a standard when almost none of the drum marchines and electronic drums use GM mapping? )

    on your MIDI track, click on the OUTPUT pull down menu and look thru the NEW DRUM MAP options and see if there's a drum map listed for the DR-880.  if so, select it.  if not, you'll have to create one.  I can help you create one if you have the manual for the DR-880 which will have the note map in it.

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    57Gregy
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/03/18 10:08:45 (permalink)
    I must admit that when using the SR-16, I already had the MIDI tracks in MC/SONAR, so there were no patterns in the SR-16.
    You'll probably have to record those patterns by clicking Play on the Boss, then record in MC.
    Make sure you have the tempo in MC set to the same tempo as the Boss.
    Alternatively, does the Boss have some sort of MIDI dump option? Or can you save the MIDI file to a disk or SD card?

    Greg 
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    57Gregy
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/03/18 10:38:25 (permalink)
    According to the docs I just read, the USB port is for MIDI connectivity or Standard MIDI File (SMF) import. So you can't use it to export the SMF.
    There are a bunch of updates available on the Boss site, too.
    Do they have a forum?

    Greg 
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    NashvilleKat1968
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/03/18 15:48:01 (permalink)
    Hopefully, I'll answer a few questions here that have been asked.

    @Beagle - I did have two instances of EZDrummer open. Thanks for catching that. It still didn't solve the issue but at least that's one less issue to deal with.    

    I'll admit to being an old guitar player out of his element when it comes to MIDI. I'm just familiar enough with it to get myself into trouble. But it's time I learned at least enough to implement it in my recording. A brief boring bio - I got into home recording years ago with a four-track cassette like I'm sure many of you did. I first attempted computer-based recording in the late-90's/early 2000's and wasn't that impressed. The industry was new. It was a world of adapters to get sound into your computer (pre-interface era), slow CPU's, limited RAM... just downright quirky. Around 2003 I purchased a BOSS digital multitrack and enjoyed it tremendously. I later upgraded to a 16 track ZOOM and just wore the thing out - literally. So I decided to try the computer route again. I purchased Cubase (which is what I had and HATED years before) and struggled with it. It seems there's ALWAYS a computer/software compatability issue to resolve before I can record with it. I bought MC5 for the Amplitude X-Gear and Sound Center plug-ins, intending to use them in Cubase. Instead, I was impressed enough with it actually working right out of the box and it's user-friendly GUI that I've ditched the Cubase. So, all that to say I'm learning and really appreciate the help. I hope as the next few weeks wear on the users of this forum won't come to hate the old fart asking all the questions.

    At this point, I've all but given up on getting MC5 to control the drum machine the way I want it to. However, I was able to record the track manually with the drum machine triggering EZDrummer and laying it down as a MIDI track. So it's there.

    Now to answer Guitarhacker's question. I have a bunch of my songs programmed into my drum machine already. Like I said in my original post, I'm quite adept at programming drums from scratch so the quality of the already-completed tracks is high enough that I would rather use them than creating something in EZDrummer and MC5... for now. However, going forward I plan on ditching the use of the drum machine altogether. Before I began buying expansion packs for EZ I wasn't impressed enough with the basic kit and included grooves but the expansions are unbelievable - very useful stuff to build from. What's really cool is that I discovered I can record a track from my drum machine in MIDI and then replace rolls and fills with the samples in EZ, so I may yet spice up the old tracks with some new flair.

    Thanks again everyone for the help. You've given me a workable solution.
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    NashvilleKat1968
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/08/02 18:05:01 (permalink)
    I wanted to update this information.

    It is possible to use my drum machine to trigger EZ Drummer and to record it into MIDI data in MC5. However it isn't possible to sync the drum machine and MC5. Music Creator doesn't support syncing as there is no Sync option under Options> Project as there is in the Sonar versions. So the only option I really have if I want to use the data is to arm the track, hit record and get as close as I can to hitting the play button on the drum machine as close as possible to the first beat of the first measure then going through the laborous process of nudging all the data manually. I find it curious that Cakewalk wouldn't include such an important, almost standardized, feature in their product. Does anyone know if they have fixed this issue with MC6?
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    57Gregy
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/08/02 22:10:08 (permalink)
    Have you tried MIDI Quantize? Whatever quantization you choose will place the notes in the proper space regardless of how late or early you hit the key (in most cases).

    Greg 
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    Beagle
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/08/03 09:03:48 (permalink)
    NashvilleKat1968


    I wanted to update this information.

    It is possible to use my drum machine to trigger EZ Drummer and to record it into MIDI data in MC5. However it isn't possible to sync the drum machine and MC5. Music Creator doesn't support syncing as there is no Sync option under Options> Project as there is in the Sonar versions. So the only option I really have if I want to use the data is to arm the track, hit record and get as close as I can to hitting the play button on the drum machine as close as possible to the first beat of the first measure then going through the laborous process of nudging all the data manually. I find it curious that Cakewalk wouldn't include such an important, almost standardized, feature in their product. Does anyone know if they have fixed this issue with MC6?


    yes, that's correct.  you have to upgrade to Sonar X1 Essentials to get MIDI sync availability.  I am pretty sure MIDI sync is not available in MC6 either, but I can verify that tonight when I get home.  I'm pretty sure this is a feature which is considered "advanced" or at least "intermediate" and not "beginner" for which the MC program is targeted, so it's not a matter of "fixing something that's missing" - it's a matter of "you get what you pay for."

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    #13
    Beagle
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    Re:Triggering EZDrummer from an external drum machine... no MIDI recorded. 2011/08/03 20:44:42 (permalink)
    nope, no MIDI sync for MC6 as I suspected.  you have to upgrade for that feature.

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