Mixdown (Export) when using classic external hardware effects (reverbs, etc..) ?

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mikespitzer
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2011/03/22 11:35:01 (permalink)

Mixdown (Export) when using classic external hardware effects (reverbs, etc..) ?

As all us SONAR users know, the easiest way to go for example from a 24/96 multi-track project to a 24/44.1 Stereo WAV file to be used by a Mastering facility to eventually generate a finished CD-compatible 16/44.1 file is to use SONAR's EXPORT function (with all the options for automation, etc.. active).
 
However, here is a question for all you studio guys who might be using things like vintage or classic external non-VST/USB  hardware  (example : Lexicon 480L Reverbs, etc..)   or other external audio path effects via Sends/Returns for some of your effects instead of plug-ins.
 
Obviously the EXPORT feature will not work in this case, because these external hardware effects only receive and return a signal when the project is PLAYING and the audio streams can go out the sends, to the hardware unit, back via the returns and be added to the mix.  (ie... think the analog days and the rack of gear beside the console wen mixing).
 
In this case, you must use some other "2 Track Mastering Recorder" application of some sort to record your SONAR project playing with all the hardware effects returns , etc...
(again , very similar to the analog days where you had some 2 track recorder capturing your mixdown playing with all the effects running, etc..)
Question --
 
For those of you who may be working this way , What application do you use for recording your 2-track stereo mixdown in this type of situation when classic external hardware is being used ?
 
(Note- I know some newer hardware effects can be plugged into USB or firewire and act much like a plug-in .... I am not referring to these .... I am talking about older, vintage or classic hardware units that only handle AUDIO in and out)
 
Thanks
 
#1

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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Mixdown (Export) when using classic external hardware effects (reverbs, etc..) ? 2011/03/22 13:22:56 (permalink)
    It's best to record the external gear before exporting. You don't mention which version of SONAR you have, but IIRC in the 8.x versions there's a function called "External bounce" or something like that (I haven't installed my 8.5 yet).

    Anyway, you need to record/bounce the external FX to an audio track before exporting.
    So, signal out to ext. FX, back in to an audio track.

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    Mooch4056
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    Re:Mixdown (Export) when using classic external hardware effects (reverbs, etc..) ? 2011/03/22 13:39:52 (permalink)
    If I recall right - and I only experimental a little when sonar got the insert to add hardware - 

    But again - If I recall right - you can export it as long as its not a fast bounce - slow real time bounce while listening - and again - if I remember right - it worked fine for me - 

     my external hardware isn't as good as th plug ins I own - so I never really got it to it too deep ...

    but yeah - I am like 90 % sure - with the inserts enable just do a real time export of audio worked for me  

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    #3
    mikespitzer
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    Re:Mixdown (Export) when using classic external hardware effects (reverbs, etc..) ? 2011/03/22 14:49:50 (permalink)
    It's best to record the external gear before exporting. You don't mention which version of SONAR you have, but IIRC in the 8.x versions there's a function called "External bounce" or something like that (I haven't installed my 8.5 yet). Anyway, you need to record/bounce the external FX to an audio track before exporting. So, signal out to ext. FX, back in to an audio track. SONAR PE 6.02, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 2 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820 The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
    Kalle Rantaaho



    Hmmm.... that is an interesting idea.
     
    Set up the mix to play as you like it ....  but, record the stereo effects returns  from the hardware to tracks and then save project
     
    Then EXPORT as normal.
     
    Technically that would indeed work,  I confess I had not heard of that technique before that I can recall.
     
    The REAL TIME Export sounds like something to test also. Although for some reason it seems this may be more prone to time sync errors due to rate conversions.
    #4
    AT
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    Re:Mixdown (Export) when using classic external hardware effects (reverbs, etc..) ? 2011/03/22 15:22:56 (permalink)
    Playing the mix (or tracks) out of the interfaces' analog, using external analog hardware, and recording the sound back is the way I do it.  You can add analog to tracks using this method, or to a mix when you master it (or afterwards to a mix).

    I send my mixed stereo master out through my TCK 48(with DSP effects - comp and EQ) into a pair of Komit compressors/limiters.  That signal is recorded back into SONAR with most of that radio-friendly max level.  Works like a charm, and an extra DA/AD stage doesn't harm the sound.

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    #5
    mikespitzer
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    Re:Mixdown (Export) when using classic external hardware effects (reverbs, etc..) ? 2011/03/22 15:34:21 (permalink)
    What exactly is the difference between SONARS'   BOUNCE and EXPORT features ?

    I tend to think of BOUNCE much like the old analog days when you would bounce "combine" tracks to an adjacent track on the recorder.

    By contrast, Export pretty much is self explanatory, you send the multitrack project OUT to a seperate standalone WABV file for mastering of further processing someplace else.

    I have used EXPORT but not BOUNCE.

    Do both bounce and export allow REAL TIME mixdowns ?
    If so, it seems this may be another way to incorporate the audio from the external hardware without needing to record the effects return audio to tracks.

    Just curious to weigh all options.

    I can see where the record effects to a track and then use the fast export will work .

    But it SEEMS that some sort of REAL TIME EXPORT would also be available too.

    Thanks

    #6
    mikespitzer
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    Re:Mixdown (Export) when using classic external hardware effects (reverbs, etc..) ? 2011/03/22 19:55:19 (permalink)
    Well, based on the suggestions above I just experimented with ...........

    1) As expected, recording the hardware effects returns to stereo tracks and then Exporting as normal works.

    2) However the LIVE INPUT during a REAL TIME Export, did not work.
    Apparently the term "Live Input" does not include the input from your interfaces hardware inputs, but only Input Echo inside SONAR.

    During the Audible Export with Live Input selected, I could hear the reverb and delays in the mix ........... however, the Exported file was DRY.
    It did not record the live input at the hardware inputs after all.
    In other words, it did not real time export what you could hear.

    HMMMM .........
    #7
    jm24
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    Re:Mixdown (Export) when using classic external hardware effects (reverbs, etc..) ? 2011/04/02 19:35:23 (permalink)
    Best is to create audio track, name it for later joy.

    PLAY the project and record to the new track. This way you hear it all as it is supposed to be.

    Then export, with bit reduction and dither, if ya wanna.

    I do not use export.  I copy the mix wav file to CD Architect which reads the 32 bit files.

    Also: I use a MASTER MIX bus and a MAIN OUT bus. ALL instruments/vocals,... are sent to the MASTER MIX, mostly through other buses.

    The master mix bus has all the final effects and automation.

    This is sent to the MAIN OUT bus which has meters, and voxengo span,... for observation.

    The new/mixed track is sent to the MAIN OUT bus and therefore I do not need to change any settings, disable effects,... for any bus, to be able to hear what I just mixed.

    More control.


    #8
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